Executioner vs Mongoose
Quite a while ago now, I discussed Mongoose vs Battlemaster which really wasn’t even a comparison so much as a one-sided victory for Mongoose. This is what makes the Executioner vs Mongoose debate actually interesting. They are both worth it.
Mongoose
Chance on hit to occasionally increase Agility by 120 and attack speed slightly. This affect lasts 15 seconds.
- 6x Void Crystals
- 10x Large Prismatic Shard
- 8x Greater Planar Essence
- 40x Arcane Dust
Is the effect useful?
Yup, nothing new to see here. The increase in Agility equals 4% crit, a 4% dodge, and an additional 240 Armor. The Haste Rating bonus is still very minor and generally speaking isn’t really considered in the evaluation of this enchant.
Executioner
Chance on hit to occasionally ignore 840 of your enemy’s armor. This affect lasts 15 seconds.
- 6x Void Crystals
- 10x Large Prismatic Shard
- 6x Greater Planar Essence
- 30x Arcane Dust
- 3x Elixir of Major Strength
Is the effect useful?
Definitely. Armor penetration is one of those stats that keeps getting better the more you have. You won’t truly see the gains of this enchant until you are fighting a fully debuffed raid boss. Thankfully, that’s where we really want these enchants to count anyway 
What do we know?
Although no completely conclusive data has been found on the subject, testing has shown Executioner to have relatively the same proc rate as Mongoose. The result is that Executioner is going to increase your threat more than Mongoose. However, that’s not the whole picture. Executioner offers none of the avoidance and mitigation bonuses that come along with having 120 agility.
So, who wins?
Neither of them. Myself I prefer Mongoose’s combination of Threat, Avoidance and Mitigation, but I’d also not discredit anyone who preferred Executioner for it’s superior Threat increase. Both are fine choices and unfortunately on this one, it’s all going to come down to preference.
January 16th, 2008 at 8:17 am
I might actually suggest having two tanking weapons, one for threat and one for avoidance, and enchant them accordingly.
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January 16th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Excellent point, Kelthrak.
If I manage to pick up a 2nd Cleaver of the Unforgiving, I’ll certainly do just that. It’d definitely be worth putting Executioner on a slow weapon (2.6 speed-ish) for an off-tank as many fights require the off-tank to keep up on threat while not actually tanking the target (Gruul) and even for a Main Tank for fights when the active tanking role is juggled around. (Void Reaver)
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January 16th, 2008 at 10:15 am
The way I read executioner it only allows YOU (the tank) to ignore the armor. I would think the greatest benefit of sunder and other armor reducing abilities is your allowing the entire raid to ignore that armor. (IE: the DPS classes actually doing damage) Is 840 really a great benefit if its only effecting yourself? And is it going to overshadow the greater tanking abilities of the mongoose?
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Everse reply on May 21, 2008 1:21 am:
The Executioner proc also gives the tank a large amount of threat though so tanks that suffer in not getting enough threat but have a good amount of dodge / mitigation / health should go for this. Personally i’d prefer Mongoose because as a tank I am strong at gaining alot of threat, and fast, so would prefer the 4% dodge and 240 armor, as well as the 4% crit of course which should help too :]
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January 16th, 2008 at 10:26 am
I think it comes down to the glow efect here.
Despite the fact that I have no idea what executionaer looks like… I’m positively sold on the Green Lightning glow effect! oh yah… and all that agility stuff is alright too.
- The Bunny -
Orc Warrior - Stonemaul US (PvP)
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January 16th, 2008 at 11:24 am
annalyze, think of it this way. if you ignore 840 armor, it basically means more damage with devastate, right? If that is so, your TPS goes up when it procs and the dpsers in the raid that do an obscene amt of damage don’t have to hold back as much.
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January 16th, 2008 at 11:28 am
In an off tanking situation (saving rage for devastate and shield slam) I would suggest Executioner for increased threat for what little rage you are getting but in a main tank situation you should be able to generate an equal amount of threat since you will be able to devastate, shield slam, revenge, and heroic strike more often and enjoy the benefits of mongoose mitigation.
Just my 2 cents.
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January 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I feel they are both valuable enchants. Get Executioner on your threat weapon, especially when not currently tanking (ie Decapitator), and possibly even on your KD. Keep Mongoose on your Sun Eater, and KD if that’s the only tanking weapon you have.
With threat buffs from 2.3, I would value the added survivability of Mongoose over added threat from Executioner in most circumstances.
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January 16th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I had mongoose on my KD and switched to executioner…..To be honest the results are pretty subtle, but in a long fight where you want to reduce the time to kill (thinking enrage, OOMs, etc) it helps.
By the same token I have always had +15 agi on my SE and its dramatically better in an avoidance fight…like Prince, for example. I wonder if its worth getting mongoose on it……
FWIW
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January 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Mongoose - Unless you score a crit that otherwise would not have been a crit during the proc, that portion of the enchant is wasted. 4% dodge is nice and I tend to like avoidance more than other tanks I talk to, but even I realize that there comes a point when avoidance becomes counter-productive. I think tanks start flirting with that point around the middle of tier 5 content when their dodge+parry+miss starts creeping over 50%. So the 4% dodge can be more or less valuable depending on gear level. Then there is 240 armor. Armor is good. But you also have 4% more dodge so you might never get to use that extra armor mitigation since you might not get hit at all. Finally, 240 isn’t very much.
Executioner - a gauranteed -840 armor on every single attack you land which is a definate threat increase. That
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January 16th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I realize this is primarily a tanking blog but, how does Executioner compare to other enchants in a tanking role, like say compared to Savagery?
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January 16th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
I’m an inexperienced tank, so I could be wrong, but the way I look at it is that on any fight where you don’t have rage coming out both ears, the 4% dodge will result in a slight TPS drop due to rage starvation, so the crit and dodge are working against each other and basically cancel each other out.
Executioner on the other hand = more rage from white hits, higher tps, in any situation, anywhere, every time it procs. Gotta love that.
I have a Sun Eater with Mongoose which I use to tank Prince and Nightbane, and a King’s Defender with Executioner which I use for pretty much everything else.
And I know it’s not a valid reason but it’s worth mentioning, a KD with Exec looks HOT! XD
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January 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
I upgraded to Executioner as soon as it became available simply because I don’t like the odds with Mongoose. You have to rely on it to proc (which I’ll admit is often) and then hope those extra 4% proc. Executioner to me feels like a far more reliable enchant, it procs, threat goes up rinse repeat.
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January 16th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
@Norskolld:
Good point.
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January 16th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Umm Vene…. this isn’t what you said you were gonna blog about!!! *grins*
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January 16th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Grufvendar:
Since savagery is for 2H and therefore never used in a tanking role, can I assume you meant dps?
In this case I believe executioner is considered the best dps enchant for 2-handers, and when dual-wielding the optimal combination is executioner in MH and mongoose in OH, because 2 executioner procs from 2 weapons don’t stack, they just refresh the duration.
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January 16th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Well Vene, this is all great info and whatnot, but I believe you’ve failed to address the most important question here…
Which is the best Overtanking enchant? Since executioner is mainly a dps enchant, this should turn what you called “crappy prot dps” into chart topping epeen damage. Right?
On a more serious note: I was using King’s Defender with a mongoose enchant. Then we finally opened up The Lurker Below and his Mallet of the Tides. So I threw Executioner on my king’s defender to just kinda try it out. And I’ve been loving it. You can really feel the increase in damage and subsequently threat when it procs. However, whenever I get my hands on a Mallet, I’m going to be throwing Mongoose on it as it will be my tanking weapon, and my defender will be my threat weapon.
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January 16th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Ya I think I’ll just switch to axesmithing.
It’ll take some work to make the first one:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28431
But this 2nd guy, will be a joke since I’ve got the Nethers lying around:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28432
And eventually can lead into:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28433
That’ll make an amazing Devastate weapon with Executioner on it especially for an Orc like me.
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January 16th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
I use kind of an odd weapon for threat generation in regular and heroic dungeons… Blinkstrike w/ Executioner. I absolutely love this weapon and it hits like a truck, especially with the extra attacks (which proc a LOT). Devastate hits for nearly twice the dmg as a SE or KD. I find rage builds much faster and since i’m just popping special attacks nonstop, the slower speed is inconsequential. I’ve got KD w/ Mongoose that I use in much harder fights where mana conservation is more important than DPS as it provides quite a bit more mitigation.
Devastate - extra attack - Devastate - extra attack - Executioner proc… love this sword.
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January 17th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Both enchants have their place if you have 2 or more good MH’s.
Mongoose on my Unbreakable Will for bosses.
Executioner on my Blazefury for trash and threat.
As a side note, Executioner wins for multimob tanking (re: Mount Hyjal). Once it procs, you have the armor reduction on everything you hit. Mongoose’s increased agility still relies on getting a crit if you’re looking for a threat boost…
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January 17th, 2008 at 10:50 am
I might try executioner on my S1 1H 2.6speed axe (since I’m an orc) for OTing trash mobs. I could switch to suneater with goose on it when the time comes to tank a boss like curator or something similar. Oh the possibilities when you have the right gear.
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January 17th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
I told myself I would put mongoose on The Unbreakable Will and use it for progression content and put Executioner on The Brutalizer and use it as my threat weapon for farm content. But here is the rub: by the time you get both of those weapons, you are probably farming tier 6 so you really don’t need the extra survivability from mongoose. All that really matters is threat and getting through it as fast as possible so I can get back to leveling my warlock.
That is why I ended up putting executioner on both and TUW sits in my bank gathering dust.
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January 17th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
ya since my guild just beat prince for the first time the other day, i’m fairly skeptical about putting exec on both my weps. At the stage my guild is at, mongoose will work best for me for MT wep enchant with exec as the OT wep enchant. I’ll be doing a LOT of gear swaps and mid-fight wep swaps…..
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January 17th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
When I get my hands on the executioner enchant I plan on putting it on my KD for trash mobs and threat gen for the beginning of typical boss fights, and keep mongoose on my SE for tanking bosses after I have plenty of threat generated. Honestly, I’ve been getting so far ahead of raid for threat that I feel I can make better use of the avoidance with SE as I really don’t need that extra threat gen.
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January 17th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Just curious, do people using executioner on a tanking weapon get people asking them why?
Maybe it’s just my server, but EVERY tank I see walking around has mongoose on his/her weapon except for me, and a lot of people ask me, ‘How is executioner a tanking enchant?’
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January 18th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
doesn’t happen to me… most people who ask about it ask how much threat increase it is, or what the proc rate is… no one seems to doubt that it could be a good tanking enchant…
The coolest thing about it is that the more sunders you hve on the mob, the more extra threat you get from a proc (because armor has diminishing returns, armor reduction has incresing returns)
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January 19th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Any reason people are using SE as a mitigation weapon and KD as a threat weapon? I currently only have the SE, and have mongoose on it.
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January 19th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Armor = Mitigation (KD)
Dodge = Avoidance (SE)
Most people keep their SE rather than vendoring it because they don’t consider armor in their value assessment of an item. A lot of people pretty much consider the high avoidance of SE with moderate stamina to be better survival-wise to the armor and high Stamina of KD. However, no one disagrees that higher DPS = more threat.
For me, it’s easy though. I believe that King’s Defender would be better even if it had the same dps or less than The Sun Eater (survival-wise) so since it does happen to have higher dps too, it’s the clear winner.
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January 30th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Another thing to think about is that you can switch weapons in the middle of a fight, so you could start with one of each on two different weapons and switch weapons each time one procs.
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February 20th, 2008 at 5:49 am
It annoys me when people who claim to have a “geared tank” (mainly casters) tell me that I have no idea what I am doing with Executioner on my KD. I even had a fury warrior say to me “u failz, mongoose = much better for tank”.
I just feel as if walking around with my executioner-ed KD is damaging my rep… but its funny how my raids never complain about my threat but when i use my mongoose-ed SE the rogues seem to catch up…
Since it came out, I have wanted to try executioner and I have never looked back since I got it, but it wears you down, people not willing to accept new ideas. Barthilas, at times is such a backwards server.
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April 6th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
I got a SE with goose on it. I will be crafting my Blazefury soon and I was thinking about putting up Exec on it, so that I can switch during fights. But I am also aware that the guilds im tanking in are generally entry level ssc/tk - so there really wont be much of a reason to get that much threat.
So what it brings down to is this: Which one has the better looks?
I know goose is ok. Exec can either shine greatly or be unnoticable at all. For ex, S3 Mace just hides the exec whereas a Spiteblade or the Lionhearts glow so freaking much.
I was hoping if somebody can gimme a link to a pic of blazefury with exec on it as I cant seem to findone anywhere
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June 18th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Im abit confused here i have the quickening blade with a executioner enchant and the sun eater with mongoose, and i just got the mallet of the tides…what i need to know now is this what should i enchant my mallet with executioner or mongoose i see some of u say mallet should be mongoose and others say executioner….any chance of a help here?
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June 26th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Im planing to put Mongoose on my KD and Executioner on my Decapitator, and then use Decapitator as my OT weapon. But could that extra threat on my Decapitator steal the target from MT?
By the way, Thanks for this great site! It have helped me alot allready!!
Bull from Neptulon server
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