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VW, it is very important for a tank, as it directly relates to your threat and rage generation.
However, no, you should never gem for +hit. You can, however, have a threat set that you put on for high-threat/low-damage fights (clearing trash). For me, this means I put on my Auto-Blocker, Maiden Gloves, and a few +hit items (jewelry/cloak is great for this, as you can gain a lot of threat and lose very little by way of tanking stats). As long as you’re over 490defense and your HP/Armor doesn’t shoot down, it’s definitely worth having.
Hit is really only important as a threat stat. In tier 4 and early tier 5 threat should really never be an issue unless you are doing something wrong. Not until the end of tier 5 and into tier 6 does the dps finally catch up with your threat generation and then +hit becomes a lot more important. And as fate would have it, you start seeing tanking gear with +hit on it at the end of tier 5 and all through tier 6. I wouldn’t gem for it at any point unless except as a gimmick because you will be sacrificing other important stats.
I’ll admit that I’m still on the fence as to where Hit Rating sits in terms of importance. What we know for sure is that Expertise is going to offer greater return (and additional benefits) making it superior.
The relationship between Hit Rating and Block Value is trickier though. Hit Rating definitely offers a lot more threat than Block Value, but Block Value offers damage reduction and since this reduction is applied after Armor, its very significant especially at a Karazhan level.
In the end, the Hit Cap is important to know because you don’t want to go over it. You don’t necessarily need to reach it, but every point over the cap is for the most part a waste.
Hit rating is only important for TPS, but it’s really nice (second to expertise)
It also effects taunt & challenging shout. They’re still classed as spells, and have a 17% miss rate on L73 mobs, so you need 252 hit rating to hit a 1% spell resist cap.
I have never been resisted for taunt or challenge shout since I’ve reached the hit cap of 142. and 26 I believe is the expertise “cap” for dodge, it’s significantly higher to bump parry off.
Thanks for the responses guys; I must admit that my question was somewhat ‘loaded.’ I do, as a matter of fact have a ‘threat set’ where I give up effective health for threat generation….but its nice to hear my strategy corroborated.
Nice to know information there. Now i would like to see something on Expertise rating and what is good how much is too much to compliment the hit rating.
142 hit to never miss an attack from your Main Hand weapon.
AND to never miss a ‘yellow’ (or special attack) - although Taunt scales with hit rating, it is estimated that it takes as much as 250 hit rating is never miss a taunt.
Expertise does not count towards HIT but does reduce the number of Parries and Dodges
Expertise cap (never get dodged or parried by a Level 73 Monster) is 23 points of Skill (about 91 Rating) . With 6 points of skill from defiance that leaves about 65 points of RATING to get elsewhere.
It is however important to note that bosses are suspected to have significantly higher rates of dodge and parry than regular lvl 73s and it’s not known how much that is … so more than 23 skill is OK (nobody knows the precise boss values for block & dodge yet)
so at this time 23 points of expertise is considered the ‘effective’ cap (if not the actual cap)
One other thing that’s nice about Hit Rating is its utility against a spell casting opponent. While casting you cannot block, dodge or parry but an attack may still miss so Hit Rating is essential for reliable spell interruption.
so if that is the case… i’m kinda wondering why i steal aggro from teh main tank in moroes with me having a HR of 30 as opposed to him having a HR of 48. He should have no problem holding aggro over me.
@Hao:
The reality is that Threat isn’t only about Hit Rating. Your Main Tank’s threat can be affected by the abilities he uses, his spec as well as many other statistical values including Attack Power, Crit Chance, Block Value, etc.
Even in a perfect world where all other factors could be removed from the equation the reality is that Hit Rating is just a percentage. His 48 HR as opposed to your 30 HR really just means that over the course of a very, very long fight that 1.14% of the time he’ll hit when you miss, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be plenty of shorter length encounters where you Hit and he Misses.
So cut your MT some slack, the game is just a little random at times
@Arideni:
Sorry but we can’t always rely on others. A good example is tanking Caribdis. Generally, we run with a rogue and mage supporting the tank but you simply cannot solely rely on others on a job that you can do yourself. Sure the rogue is better at it but latency and other distractions may inhibit him from doing his job. The best thing it to tune up your hit rating and help.
In a non-raid setting its quite possible that the tank is the only interrupt in the group.
@Ivanstone:
It’s impractical to always rely on just one person for interrupts, though. Granted, I trust myself with interrupts more than other players, I wouldn’t want to be the sole person interrupting.
I had part of my post cut short & didn’t get to express that I was merely clarifying against a sarcasmic joke. I was joking about was this time I didn’t interrupt a spell & it caused the rogue to die. He wouldn’t have died if he had kicked.
I hope this hasn’t led to much confusion, =)
btw, I totally agree the tank should be Bashing Caribdis!
I lose aggro to an OT due to the blinds, gouges and stuns from the paladin or protection warrior mobs if I have to hold them too. Losing aggro isn’t always about hit or SBV, sometimes it’s something as simple as landing a nice big, juicy sheild slam crit!
@fubar - but if you are lacking SBV then your big juicy shield slam crit will be neither big nor juicy and if you are lacking hit it won’t land in the first place.
little late, but thx for the clarification vene. I think I was focusing on the smaller picture of threat and forgot that there are more factors that contribute.
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:57 am
And knowing is half the battle.
So, forgive my newbishness, but am I right in understanding that this is the cap for:
1) 2-hander users,
2) Dual-wielders, regarding specials only (and assuming you don’t have precision)
Is that right?
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:02 am
Yup, and:
3) 1 hander + shield
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:22 am
Is this important for a tank? My thinking is that it is NOT, as I would rather not give up gem slots for it.
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:35 am
Hehe… Thank you, Vene. I was actually wondering about that *this* morning!
And now I know.
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:43 am
VW, it is very important for a tank, as it directly relates to your threat and rage generation.
However, no, you should never gem for +hit. You can, however, have a threat set that you put on for high-threat/low-damage fights (clearing trash). For me, this means I put on my Auto-Blocker, Maiden Gloves, and a few +hit items (jewelry/cloak is great for this, as you can gain a lot of threat and lose very little by way of tanking stats). As long as you’re over 490defense and your HP/Armor doesn’t shoot down, it’s definitely worth having.
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:47 am
@vwcrusher: hit=threat, plain and easy….
While you might not want to gem for it, there are a few tanking pieces with hit rating on them, and those help your threat…
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
Hit is really only important as a threat stat. In tier 4 and early tier 5 threat should really never be an issue unless you are doing something wrong. Not until the end of tier 5 and into tier 6 does the dps finally catch up with your threat generation and then +hit becomes a lot more important. And as fate would have it, you start seeing tanking gear with +hit on it at the end of tier 5 and all through tier 6. I wouldn’t gem for it at any point unless except as a gimmick because you will be sacrificing other important stats.
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:00 am
I’ll admit that I’m still on the fence as to where Hit Rating sits in terms of importance. What we know for sure is that Expertise is going to offer greater return (and additional benefits) making it superior.
The relationship between Hit Rating and Block Value is trickier though. Hit Rating definitely offers a lot more threat than Block Value, but Block Value offers damage reduction and since this reduction is applied after Armor, its very significant especially at a Karazhan level.
In the end, the Hit Cap is important to know because you don’t want to go over it. You don’t necessarily need to reach it, but every point over the cap is for the most part a waste.
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:14 am
Hit rating is only important for TPS, but it’s really nice (second to expertise)
It also effects taunt & challenging shout. They’re still classed as spells, and have a 17% miss rate on L73 mobs, so you need 252 hit rating to hit a 1% spell resist cap.
[Reply]
Dental Dam reply on June 18, 2008 6:26 am:
I have never been resisted for taunt or challenge shout since I’ve reached the hit cap of 142. and 26 I believe is the expertise “cap” for dodge, it’s significantly higher to bump parry off.
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 am
Thanks for the responses guys; I must admit that my question was somewhat ‘loaded.’ I do, as a matter of fact have a ‘threat set’ where I give up effective health for threat generation….but its nice to hear my strategy corroborated.
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:49 am
Nice to know information there. Now i would like to see something on Expertise rating and what is good how much is too much to compliment the hit rating.
Slowboogie
Icecrown
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Check out
http://blessingofkings.blogspot.com/2007/07/hit-caps-for-bosses.html
For a comprehensive list of all the hit caps for all classes with all specs. Also has a nice section at the bottom for theorized expertise caps.
[Reply]
January 22nd, 2008 at 1:44 pm
oohhhh, thanks for that link, that’s a great reference…
[Reply]
January 23rd, 2008 at 9:19 am
142 hit to never miss an attack from your Main Hand weapon.
AND to never miss a ‘yellow’ (or special attack) - although Taunt scales with hit rating, it is estimated that it takes as much as 250 hit rating is never miss a taunt.
Expertise does not count towards HIT but does reduce the number of Parries and Dodges
Expertise cap (never get dodged or parried by a Level 73 Monster) is 23 points of Skill (about 91 Rating) . With 6 points of skill from defiance that leaves about 65 points of RATING to get elsewhere.
It is however important to note that bosses are suspected to have significantly higher rates of dodge and parry than regular lvl 73s and it’s not known how much that is … so more than 23 skill is OK (nobody knows the precise boss values for block & dodge yet)
so at this time 23 points of expertise is considered the ‘effective’ cap (if not the actual cap)
[Reply]
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:25 am
One other thing that’s nice about Hit Rating is its utility against a spell casting opponent. While casting you cannot block, dodge or parry but an attack may still miss so Hit Rating is essential for reliable spell interruption.
[Reply]
January 24th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Melee classes shoudn’t be depending on you for interrupts, especially a rogue.
[Reply]
January 24th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
so if that is the case… i’m kinda wondering why i steal aggro from teh main tank in moroes with me having a HR of 30 as opposed to him having a HR of 48. He should have no problem holding aggro over me.
[Reply]
January 24th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
@Hao:
The reality is that Threat isn’t only about Hit Rating. Your Main Tank’s threat can be affected by the abilities he uses, his spec as well as many other statistical values including Attack Power, Crit Chance, Block Value, etc.
Even in a perfect world where all other factors could be removed from the equation the reality is that Hit Rating is just a percentage. His 48 HR as opposed to your 30 HR really just means that over the course of a very, very long fight that 1.14% of the time he’ll hit when you miss, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be plenty of shorter length encounters where you Hit and he Misses.
So cut your MT some slack, the game is just a little random at times
[Reply]
January 24th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
@Arideni:
Sorry but we can’t always rely on others. A good example is tanking Caribdis. Generally, we run with a rogue and mage supporting the tank but you simply cannot solely rely on others on a job that you can do yourself. Sure the rogue is better at it but latency and other distractions may inhibit him from doing his job. The best thing it to tune up your hit rating and help.
In a non-raid setting its quite possible that the tank is the only interrupt in the group.
[Reply]
January 25th, 2008 at 8:52 am
@Ivanstone:
It’s impractical to always rely on just one person for interrupts, though. Granted, I trust myself with interrupts more than other players, I wouldn’t want to be the sole person interrupting.
I had part of my post cut short & didn’t get to express that I was merely clarifying against a sarcasmic joke. I was joking about was this time I didn’t interrupt a spell & it caused the rogue to die. He wouldn’t have died if he had kicked.
I hope this hasn’t led to much confusion, =)
btw, I totally agree the tank should be Bashing Caribdis!
[Reply]
January 25th, 2008 at 9:30 am
I lose aggro to an OT due to the blinds, gouges and stuns from the paladin or protection warrior mobs if I have to hold them too. Losing aggro isn’t always about hit or SBV, sometimes it’s something as simple as landing a nice big, juicy sheild slam crit!
[Reply]
January 25th, 2008 at 10:53 am
@fubar - but if you are lacking SBV then your big juicy shield slam crit will be neither big nor juicy and if you are lacking hit it won’t land in the first place.
[Reply]
February 13th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
little late, but thx for the clarification vene. I think I was focusing on the smaller picture of threat and forgot that there are more factors that contribute.
[Reply]