Loading ...Simplicity: Tanking Hyjal Waves with a Paladin
One way or another you’ve found your way into Hyjal Summit alongside a Protection Paladin. What you’re about to experience is a non-stop AOE fest by the rest of your raid. It’s true, the spotlight isn’t on you this time, but believe me, once you’ve tanked Hyjal with a Protection Paladin, you’ll never want to do it again without one.
9 Little Tips
- Don’t try to tank as many mobs as the Paladin, it’s simply not possible.
- Grab 1 Heavy hitting mob off the start. (It’s chaos if the Paladin tank dies)
- Never try to over threat the Paladin, just wait for Taunt to be up. (You’re just wasting rage otherwise)
- You taunt off the pally, not vice versa.
- Don’t stun mobs the paladin is tanking, they get a lot of their threat from being attacked
- Do stun mobs that will stun the paladin. (aka Abominations)
- Always keep Demoralizing Shout and Commanding Shout up.
- Thunderclap, a lot and move to different areas of the pack for maximum coverage.
- Stand in front of the Paladin at the start of waves so that you can Spell Reflect the casters. This’ll allow your CCers time to sheep and shackle.
A Breakdown of the Waves
Let’s take a look at how to handle each of the waves of Hyjal with a Protection Paladin at your side. We’ll assume there’s a Protection Warrior (you), a Feral Druid, an Arms Warrior (in tanking gear) and finally, the Protection Paladin. In general, the Feral Druid plays the role of assist, the Paladin AOE tanks, the Arms Warrior tanks a heavy hitter and intervenes occasionally, and you basically do what the Arms Warrior does plus tank casters as well. We’ll be looking primarily at mob selection for the purpose of tanking, it’s very possible you’ll have hunters kiting mobs during the waves too, but I’ll keep non-tanking discussion to a minimum for the sake of this exercise.
On the Way to Rage Winterchill
Wave 1
10 Ghouls
The Protection Paladin can easily tank all of these, but as a Warrior you can still pick up 1 and generate a high amount of threat.
Protection Warrior (PW): 1 Ghoul
Feral Druid (FD): 1 Ghoul
Arms Warrior (AW): 1 Ghoul
Protection Paladin (PP): 7 Ghouls
Wave 2
10 Ghouls, 2 Crypt Fiends
Similar to the last wave, another easy wave, in general.
PW: 1 Crypt Fiend
FD: 1 Crypt Fiend
AW: 1 Ghoul
PP: 9 Ghouls
Wave 3
6 Ghouls, 6 Crypt Fiends
More of the same.
PW: 1 Crypt Fiend
FD: 1 Crypt Fiend
AW: 1 Crypt Fiend
PP: 6 Ghouls, 3 Crypt Fiends
Wave 4
6 Ghouls, 4 Crypt Fiends, 2 Necromancers
Even with only 2 Necromancers, this first wave can quickly get out of hand if you aren’t in-front Spell Reflecting the Necromancer’s bolts back at them. Still not a terribly challenging wave, but it’s important you learn the technique on moving these Necromancers early on.
PW: 2 Necromacers, 1 Crypt Fiend
FD: 1 Crypt Fiend
AW: 1 Crypt Fiend
PP: 6 Ghouls, 1 Crypt Fiend
Wave 5
2 Ghouls, 6 Crypt Fiends, 4 Necromancers
Similar technique to the last wave, but consider strafing back towards the group as you take on this wave. 4 Necromacers is getting to the point now where you’ll be getting scarily close to dieing from a full onslaught so be sure your healers are aware of this. (ie Spell Reflect will only be up half the time for the bolts)
PW: 4 Necromancers
FD: 1 Crypt Fiend
AW: 1 Crypt Fiend
PP: 2 Ghouls, 4 Crypt Fiends
Wave 6
6 Ghouls, 6 Abominations
Finally something that can really hit, the Abominations not only have some weight behind their swings, but will also stun you fairly consistently too. This won’t affect you, but it’s going to affect your Paladin, a lot and potentially even kill him or her. Be sure to use your concussion blow on one of the Paladin’s Abominations are not your own.
PW: 2 Abominations
FD: 1 Abominations
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 6 Ghouls, 2 Abominations
Wave 7
4 Ghouls, 4 Necromancers, 4 Abominations
This wave is a combination of 5 and 6 making it potentially dangerous to yourself as well as to the Protection Paladin. As the fight progresses, you can steal an Abomination from the Prot Pally to improve threat output by reducing stuns. Once again, it’s a good idea to stun one of the Abominations on the Protection Paladin.
PW: 4 Necromancers
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 4 Ghouls, 2 Abominations
Wave 8
6 Ghouls, 4 Crypt Fiends, 2 Abominations, 2 Necromancers
The largest wave you’ve faced yet, but by no means the most dangerous. This wave is just a matter of going through the motions to prepare for the boss. Focus most of your attention on Intervening reckless DPSers.
PW: 2 Necromancer, 1 Crypt Fiend
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 6 Ghouls, 3 Crypt Fiends
On the Way to Anetheron
Wave 1
10 Ghouls
Another easy start to the waves.
PW: 1 Ghoul
FD: 1 Ghoul
AW: 1 Ghoul
PP: 7 Ghouls
Wave 2
8 Ghouls, 4 Abominations
An easy wave as long as the Prot Paladin doesn’t have to tank too many Abominations. Once again, be sure to stun the Abomination on the Pally.
PW: 1 Abomination
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 8 Ghouls, 1 Abomination
Wave 3
4 Ghouls, 4 Crypt Fiends, 4 Necromancers
As expected, the only person in danger this wave is you. Make sure you’re going into this wave with sufficient rage to Spell Reflect immediately and once again, remind your healers that you’ll be taking significant burst damage.
PW: 4 Necromancers
FD: 1 Crypt Fiend
AW: 1 Crypt Fiend
PP: 4 Ghouls, 2 Crypt Fiends
Wave 4
4 Necromancers, 4 Crypt Fiends, 4 Banshees
The most dangerous caster wave yet, Spell Reflect will ensure the first shots won’t kill you, but if CC doesn’t come out fast enough after the fact then you’ll quickly find yourself dead. As this wave progresses, it’ll go from scary to easy rather quickly.
PW: 4 Necromancers, 2 Banshees
FD: 1 Banshee
AW: 1 Banshee
PP: 4 Crypt Fiends
Wave 5
6 Ghouls, 2 Necromancers, 4 Banshees
Less dangerous than the last wave, but it’s still very possible to die. Another wave that’ll get much easier very quickly as it progresses.
PW: 2 Necromancers, 2 Banshees
FD: 1 Banshee
AW: 1 Banshee
PP: 6 Ghouls
Wave 6
4 Ghouls, 2 Abominations, 4 Necromancers
Only 10 mobs makes this an easy wave, just walk into the wave with full rage for Spell Reflect and you’ll be fine.
PW: 4 Necromancers
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 4 Ghouls
Wave 7
4 Crypt Fiends, 4 Abominations, 2 Banshees, 2 Ghouls
A couple Banshees is hardly anything to worry about so be sure to pick up an Abomination.
PW: 2 Banshees, 1 Abomination
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 4 Crypt Fiends, 2 Ghouls, 1 Abomination
Wave 8
3 Ghouls, 4 Abominations, 3 Crypt Fiends, 2 Banshees, 2 Necromancers
Even with a couple Necromancers thrown in like last wave, you won’t be in too much danger that it isn’t worth picking up an Abomination immediately. Spell Reflect as always will be a necessity. Depending on how quickly the casters are CCed, consider using Concussion Blow this time on your own Abomination rather than the one the Prot Pally has.
PW: 1 Abomination, 2 Banshees, 2 Necromancers
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 3 Ghouls, 1 Abomination, 3 Crypt Fiends
On the Way to Kaz’rogal
Wave 1
4 Ghouls, 4 Abominations, 2 Banshees, 2 Necromancers
You don’t get to start off with a nice easy wave to begin this time. However, by this time you should have a complete understanding on how to handle this style of pull and as long as you don’t underestimate it, you’ll be fine.
PW: 1 Abomination, 2 Banshees, 2 Necromancers
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 4 Ghouls, 1 Abomination
Wave 2
4 Ghouls, 10 Gargoyles
The 2nd Waves presents an extremely annoying mob in Gargolyes that you’ll need the help of other player’s interrupt style effects to ground them. If you can shoot them quick enough and gain aggro then line of site them using the various obstacles around you then it’s possible to get started sooner. Overall, these waves are more time consuming than challenging. The real danger isn’t so much raid survival as it is wasting a bunch of time and not getting any time to drink before the next Wave.
PW: 4 Gargoyles
FD: 3 Gargoyles
AW: 3 Gargoyles
PP: 4 Ghouls
Wave 3
6 Ghouls, 6 Crypt Fiends, 2 Necromancers
A very simple wave as long as you completely the previous wave in a timely fashion.
PW: 1 Crypt Fiend, 2 Necromancers
FD: 1 Crypt Fiend
AW: 1 Crypt Fiend
PP: 6 Ghouls, 3 Crypt Fiends
Wave 4
6 Crypt Fiends, 2 Necromancers, 6 Gargoyles
It’s best to let your other tanks worry about the Gargoyles as you run up and deal with the 2 Necromancers. While certainly the Prot Pally can handle them too, it’s an unnecessary annoyance when you can keep threat on them easily after a Spell Reflect or two.
PW: 2 Necromancers
FD: 3 Gargoyles
AW: 3 Gargoyles
PP: 6 Crypt Fiends
Wave 5
4 Ghouls, 6 Abominations, 4 Necromancers
The first truly scary wave of this sequence. You’ll want to pick up an Abomination as well as manage the Necromancers. This is another one of those times where it’s worth reminding your healers that you’ll be taking a lot of damage. Remember to Concussion Blow one of the Pally’s Abominations so he or she doesn’t get stunned to death as well.
PW: 4 Necromancers, 1 Abomination
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 4 Ghouls, 3 Abominations
Wave 6
8 Gargoyles, 1 Frost Wyrm
You’ll have a Ranged DPSer of some sort dealing with the Frost Wyrm which means you’ll all be stuck chasing after the annoying Gargoyles as they land. This wave is fairly trivial as long as the Ranged DPSer on the Wyrm is given due attention and those not tanking the Wyrm take the time to first help land the Gargoyles for you to tank before moving onto DPSing down the Wyrm.
PW: 2 Gargoyles
FD: 2 Gargoyles
AW: 2 Gargoyles
PP: 2 Gargoyles
Wave 7
6 Ghouls, 4 Abominations, 1 Frost Wyrm
A pretty straightforward wave as long as everyone picks up an Abomination each immediately.
PW: 1 Abomination
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 6 Ghouls, 1 Abomination
Wave 8
6 Ghouls, 4 Abominations, 2 Crypt Fiends, 2 Banshees, 2 Necromancers
This last wave will put a good level of pressure on yourself as well as the Prot Paladin. 16 mobs is a lot, but as long as everyone does their job on this one, it should go smoothly.
PW: 1 Abomination, 2 Banshees, 2 Necromancers
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 6 Ghouls, 2 Crypt Fiends, 1 Abomination
On the Way to Azgalor
Wave 1
6 Abominations, 6 Necromancers
No messing around anymore, this sequence starts off with one of the ugliest waves you’ll face. 6 Necromancers is more than enough to explode you so don’t worry about picking up an Abomination otherwise you run the risk of him stunning you when you need that Spell Reflect up.
PW: 6 Necromancers
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 4 Abominations
Wave 2
5 Ghouls, 8 Gargoyles, 1 Frost Wyrm
The Prot Pally gets the easy job of tanking a handful of Ghouls and the rest of you get to chase after the annoying Gargoyles.
PW: 3 Gargoyles
FD: 3 Gargoyles
AW: 2 Gargoyles
PP: 5 Ghouls
Wave 3
6 Ghouls, 8 Giant Infernals
The Prot Pally will be able to easily handle the frontal attack of Ghouls on this wave as it introduces the Giant Infernal. They’ll land from the sky randomly and you’ll have to run all over the place to pick them up. Their damage isn’t too significant as long as you don’t tank more than 1 and keep Spell Reflect up to stop the debuff they put on you from stacking up. Tanking 2, while possible, is simply a gross amount of extra unnecessary damage. This wave is basically a test of your team’s CC and fear usage.
PW: 1 Giant Infernal
FD: 1 Giant Infernal
AW: 1 Giant Infernal
PP: 6 Ghouls
Wave 4
6 Fel Stalkers, 8 Giant Infernals
Even though the Fel Stalkers may seem like the kind of things bad for a Pally to tank, they’ll do just fine. Just worry about getting the Infernals down asap like last wave.
PW: 1 Giant Infernal
FD: 1 Giant Infernal
AW: 1 Giant Infernal
PP: 6 Fel Stalkers
Wave 5
4 Abominations, 6 Fel Stalkers, 4 Necromancers
Back to a more standard looking wave, both you and the Prot Pally are going to have your hands full. Another potentially dangerous wave that you’ll want to walk into with a healthy rage bar for Spell Reflects.
PW: 1 Abomination, 4 Necromancers
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 2 Abominations, 6 Fel Stalkers
Wave 6
6 Necromancers, 6 Banshees
The ugliest burst damage wave you’ll face in Hyjal, this wave can kill you, easily. Walking into this pull without sufficient rage to Spell Reflect virtually guarantees your own death and even if you get the first one off successfully, the rest of the team is going to need to peel off a number of targets as well as throw down CC very quickly. (Read: before they can start their next casts)
Wave 7
2 Ghouls, 2 Crypt Fiends, 2 Fel Stalkers, 6 Giant Infernals
Really just an easier version of Wave 4. Treat it the same.
PW: 1 Giant Infernal
FD: 1 Giant Infernal
AW: 1 Giant Infernal
PP: 2 Ghouls, 2 Crypt Fiends, 2 Fel Stalkers
Wave 8
4 Abominations, 4 Crypt Fiends, 4 Banshees, 2 Necromancers, 2 Fel Stalkers
The last wave you’ll have to face in Hyjal (this week as long as you 1 shot Azgalor…) is more of what you’re used to. Spell Reflect a couple sets of casters, pick up an Abomination, stun a mob on the Pally and you’re gold. In the end, if you make it this far, you’ve already figured this whole wave deal out one way or another.
PW: 1 Abomination, 2 Banshees, 2 Necromancers
FD: 1 Abomination
AW: 1 Abomination
PP: 1 Abomination, 4 Crypt Fiends, 2 Fel Stalkers
Wrap Up
You’ll no doubt notice certain patterns in how to handle these waves. Hyjal has a way of really showing off a Warrior’s ability to act as a caster tank thanks completely to a Warrior’s ability to Spell Reflect multiple simultaneously cast spells. It also has the ability to really prove to anyone that doubts a Protection Paladin’s usefulness just how useful they are. Hyjal is definitely doable without a Paladin at your side, but it’s also a whole lot more stressful too. (I don’t know about you, but I get enough stress as a tank without asking for it)
In the end, what you see above will act as a great reference for those just starting Hyjal. It’s nothing revolutionary, but it definitely reveals how much easier this place can get the more tanks you bring. These waves can be simplified a lot by quick CC, kiting and willingness to tank additional targets. Simplifying the waves as much as possible will definitely result in less incoming damage to your Paladin so your own raid’s strategy will be greatly influenced by the level of gear and ability of your Protection Paladin. The importance here though isn’t so much in understanding what everyone else is doing, but more so understanding what you have to do in order to simplify things for everyone else.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
The biggest thing for a warrior tank to do is manage your rage late in every pull. You want to build a full rage bar as each pull ends. You’ll want to have some room for rage decay between the next pull. As the pack comes in, make sure the rest of your group isn’t generating any AOE threat, Bloodrage to get their attention, and spell reflect the Necros. Try to position yourself such that all of them cast on you the same time. If the shadow bolts land simultaneously, you’ll spell reflect them all. 3-4k threat on 4 mobs is a nice way to start the encounter.
For the beginning of the first two pulls in the Orc camp, a rage pot is nice to allow you to spell reflect the necro’s right off the bat, making those pulls a little less hectic.
And make sure everyone’s helping your paladin out by keeping as many abom’s off him as possible. All your other tanks should be able to handle a couple aboms.
[Reply]
July 5th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Best way to handle Wave 6 Azgalor: have a tank drag an abomination to the group of Tauren warriors in the back and then kite the whole group of them all the way back to the front. Get a warlock or two to banish the fel puppies. The Tauren warriors will beat on the fel puppies until the 12 casters arrive.
Make sure all your players are standing real far back, and the casters will aggro on the Tauren, who will then in turn turn towards the casters and begin using their warstomp almost in a chain effect. Proceed to AOE all the casters and lose nobody to this nasty group of casters.
[Reply]
bosephus reply on July 5, 2008 8:26 pm:
Oops, I meant to use an abomination and fel hound from Wave 5 to engage the Tauren warrior to stun the casters in Wave 6. Takes a bit of heads up preparation, but works better than having one tank trying to spell reflect 12 casters.
[Reply]
Tav reply on July 7, 2008 12:04 pm:
Hey, I couldn’t agree more with this. We always have at least 2 warlock’s banish the fel hunters, and we have a hunter kite an abom–with a warrior assisting for taunt/keep aggro purposes–near the Tauren warriors. If you kite well, the Tauren’s all aggro on the fel hunters that are banished, and absolutely destroy the 12 casters that come in wave 12. The war stomps keep the casters dazed almost non stop, and you can aoe this wave down just like any other easy wave. Tanks, for wave 6, do almost nothing besides beat up a random caster. Wave 6 goes from the hardest to the easiest wave in the entire instance.
[Reply]
July 5th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Wow…I’m stunned here. Awesome post, Vene, first of all. That’s a hell of a lot of mobs to tank, and since I’ve been working on my multi-mob tanking lately, I’m actually kind of anxious (albeit scared at the same time) to venture into Hyjal and go after the Sword of my dreams (my Warrior is human).
Now I’ll know what to expect and what to do, and what to tell my Pally tank to do.
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 1:47 am
Nice article.I like that you are not treating paladins as our concurence here, like many warriors tend to.
[Reply]
Gallin reply on July 6, 2008 7:30 am:
IMO, any Warrior that does not love a Pally tank in their group needs their head checked. Every single week when I first started doing Kara, I ran with a Pally tank. At first it was by circumstance, but it got to the point where I wouldn’t have it any other way. Don’t get me wrong, I love druid tanks as well, cuz they can ferociously DPS in addition to being meat shields in the right situations…but there’s just something about Pally tanks that’s incomparable.
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 6:46 am
not a horrible article, but rather idiotic to say you are going to have a dps (arms as referenced in the article) warrior in tanking gear… the only times we have an arms warrior or fury warrior go into tanking gear during hyjal is 1) during the infernal waves, or 2) if we are short a doom guard tank for azgalor.
as for the wave 6 or azgalor trash, the most effective way we’ve found to do it is the 1 warrior trying to spell reflect all 12 of the mobs casts. HOWEVER, this is best accomplished wearing a shadow set i.e. the same that a Mother Sharaz off tank would wear, this reduces the damage by a great deal, due to the fact both the banshees and necromancers only cast shadow based spells.
[Reply]
admin reply on July 6, 2008 11:31 am:
A small overall Raid DPS loss to gain additional survivability for the entire raid is the most advantageous decision especially when you consider that lack of DPS is very, very rarely the reason for failing to get through the waves of trash.
[Reply]
Treenaa reply on July 7, 2008 4:09 am:
I wouldn’t say it is idiotic, more a function of raid makeup than anything. Vene’s example assumes they have a raid with 3 tanks and an additional dps warrior. If this is the case then it does make a lot of sense to run it that way. Personally, we generally have 4 dedicated tanks in the raid (just as a function of who we have available to raid with) in addition to a warrior dedicated to dps. In this case the warrior tends to stay in dps gear the whole time, but if we were tank short then he would have to “tank it up”. It all comes down to what works for your particular raid group and just because someone else dosen’t do it the same way you do dose not automatically equate to idiocy.
[Reply]
vorp reply on July 7, 2008 8:36 am:
Not to make this a flame war, but…
Drevin, the author of this blog takes time out of his life to write these very interesting, entertaining, and informative articles. Calling a certain strategy “idiotic” is akin to the classic schoolyard rebuttle “your mom”. Maybe next time leave the insults out of it.
Vene ftw.
[Reply]
Goodmann reply on July 8, 2008 8:48 am:
I couldn’t refrain from adding to this since i seriously hate ppl flaming other ppls work which is in majority very good.
A post i read on tankspot was about a OT warrior in DPS in OT/DPS gear managing 1k DPS with out to much hard work, so saying venes plan on using a Arms warrior in tank outfit seems to me a very solid plan and not gonna hurt the over all DPS to much.
So to shut up now BIG up vene luv ur stuff! Keep it up!
Drevin use more sense on ur next replie, u can get ur point across with out being rude don’t help it at all
[Reply]
Ridlyblade reply on July 8, 2008 3:38 pm:
As a raiding Fury warrior, I can attest to being able to handle multiple mobs on the waves in my full DPS gear (unless all the necromancers happen to choose me as the target of all Shadowbolts…that hurts).
We’ve actually gotten so used to me pulling like 3 mobs off the pally tank with WW and cleave spam that if i die to unfortunate circumstances the pally panics.
Works well and I get to have fun, only to see later that seed spam > Ridly
[Reply]
Drevin reply on July 9, 2008 3:32 am:
flame to a flame is it? seemingly odd..
either way, my word usage aside, I will note that a dps warrior in Tanking gear has effectively horrible threat generation, thereby with seed spam and the massive AOE coming from your dpsers, coupled with the great amount of threat a properly geared protection paladin will produce makes it rather unlikely that said combination would be able to hold threat in any manner whatsoever,
there is on the other hand a valid arguement for a fury warrior or arms warrior to tank 1 mob (perhaps 2 dependant on type) while in their dps gear, provided that they are getting a good amount of heals (COH or Chain Heal ftw)
Also in response to those that flamed my post, I would like you all to note I said nothing in direct response to how vene actually does his articles, I’ve found many of them to be relatively useful in the past, and my opinion of this STRATEGY is MY OPINION. Quot erat demonstrata; a valid arguement for me insulting the author cannot be made when I made no direct attacks against him, I merely find the dps warrior in tanking gear arguement to be flawed.
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 7:37 am
“One way or another you’ve found your way into Hyjal Summit”
lol
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 8:56 am
“One way or another you’ve found your way into Hyjal Summit”
Nope… :o)
Still enjoyed the post.
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 10:14 am
We roll with three tanks into Hyjal - Two Prot Warriors and a Prot Paladin.
Our Paladin will spear head the waves and get the intial aggro, I’ll run to the back and pick up the Necromancers/Banshees and start placing a Skull on one mob after another for our single target DPS to take care of (Rogues/Enhancement Shamans/etc). My priority is Banshee > Necro > Abom > Crypt > Ghoul. Our other Prot Warrior simple taunts an Abom off and pulls back to get NPCs into the fray.
Easy stuff, I don’t remember the last time we spent longer than 2 hours in Mount Hyjal.
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Any wave where there are multiple abominations there is no reason a protection warrior or feral can’t hold at least 2 abominations. The more they stack on the pally tank the higher chance he has of getting chain stunned and killed. IMO, no more than 1 Abomination should ever be on the pally tank for any length of time.
As for the caster wave, have one of your warriors run up and demo shout/shield wall. This gives time for ppl to get their CC off and greatly reduces your chance of being jibbed.
[Reply]
admin reply on July 6, 2008 11:17 am:
As long as you go into that wave with enough rage to Spell Reflect then it’s still safe. I’d be somewhat reluctant to use Shield Wall on trash when it could definitely come in handy on the boss.
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Spell Reflect is somewhat helpful on the Gargoyles as well. Its not unusual for them to zone in on the first person they say so I always charge in there quickly so they start shooting me first. Unfortunately, their ranged attacks are rather weak so you can’t get a solid aggro lock on them like you can with the necromancers.
Its worth mentioning that the Prot Pally can and should Turn Evil where possible. I normally grab the Turned mob on its way back. In any event I try to always keep an abom on me even whilst taking care of the Necromancers.
Generally, I don’t think a 4th tank is necessary. A capable kiter should be able to handle anything and is a necessity in the orc camp. Getting Thrall into the fight as fast possible is a must. Just try not to get his buddies killed. They’re useful for both Kazrogal and Azgalor.
Lastly, try to take care of the cows. This is mostly important for the infernal rounds. While they’re quite capable of crushing a few infernals some may die in the process and its best to always have all of them available for the boss rounds.
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
My guild once did Hyjal without pally tank - we managed to reach Assgalore but wiped on him and since his waves were so stresfull we just called it a day.
I’ve done my fair share of Hyjal so far and we let our pally to tank ~90% of mobs, usually we have 2 protection warriors and a druid - we just taunt Abonimations, Infernals and Necromancers.
If you have a protection paladin in your guild, ready for Hjyal grab it and don’t let it go - you’ll enjoy Hyjal more this way
[Reply]
July 6th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I agree that it’s doable but stressful as hell. One of my first nights tanking for a new guild we hit up Hyjal. We had no paladin tank and one of our warrior’s was d/cing constantly so we did all the winterchill trash with 1 prot warrior and 1 feral. My fingers hurt by the end of it
[Reply]
July 7th, 2008 at 5:03 am
My guild doesn’t have a prot paladin, I’ve seen prot pally action a handful of times though when one of our holy’s got to respec for it. But usually we run it with 3 tanks (1-2 prot warriors, 1-2 ferals) and 2 dps warriors, and we’re clearing Hyjal just fine in about 2.5h (well ok we might noob around on archimonde and wipe a lot on him, but that’s a different story :P)
A few tips I’d like add from my experience, what I haven’t seen mentioned here yet (I think):
When you do run with a prot paladin, another job for the warrior is keep mobs off the NPCs imo, so I would tab-target through the whole pack and see if any are not on the prot pally, then I taunt them and tank them.
More general tips that work for me:
- On easy packs (ghouls, fiends, felhounds, no aboms), I equip my sporeggar shield with a spike, if I manage to get inital aggro on a few ghouls it’s easy to keep them then. Our other tank has thunderfury that seems to work nice as well, but hell it screws up my framerate
- Without prot pally you can’t aoe the packs so soon, so we have a rotation of 2 dps warriors as mainassist for single target dps, after a few mobs are dead, the aoe starts on the remaining mobs.
- Our dps warriors tank single abominations in dps gear, they pull them out of the main pack so their dmg auras don’t stack, rogues help them with stuns.
- Grounding totems… Ideally have 2-3 shamans in a tank group, tanks we stand at the front, totems behind us, they will soak the first volley of bolts from necros, while they’re casting we go in and grab/control them.
- On groups with many casters, our tanks with grounding totems get inital aggro, while they’re casting a shadowpriest runs in mounted and fearbombs them, then we apply our tanking/cc. Warriors can throw fears as well.
- Caster mobs can be tanked by rogues and warlocks. On big caster waves, our actual tanks pick up the melee mobs while dps warriors, rogues and warlocks tank/stun/kill the caster mobs.
- Gargoyles, sometimes they fly just a tad too high for melee but you can reach them by jumping. If you time it right you can get a jump-shieldbash in on their spellcast, that makes them land and you can taunt them and melee take them out.
Hope it wasn’t all too obvious stuff and at least helpful for some. Would be nice to have a prot pally, especially for hyjal, but our guild has a traditionally strong active group of warriors and feral druids so there’s simply no space for another tank recruit.
And finally, I’d like to say Hi to my fellow tanks, and thanks Vene for this great site, I’ve been following it for quite a long time, and now that I’m on Illidan myself I might have enough experience to add a few comments too
Sumendis, gnome warrior, Stormrage-EU
[Reply]
July 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Another way to handle wave 6 of the Azgalor trash is to put a few rogues up front for proximity aggro and the CloS and vanish while the mages and priest get everything CCed. Kiting a mob up to the taurens and having them beat on a banished target is certainly easier, but, it is entirely possible that the taurens will chain stun the mob you kited to them and kill it way too early and then reset. So you ought to be ready with a backup plan - CloS, pally bubble, shackle + MC + sheep, etc.
If at any point your priests want to make your rogues/fury warriors insanely happy, have them MC a necromancer and cast Unholy Frenzy them. If you look at WWS reports from Hyjal bosses and wonder how people are getting ridiculously high dps numbers (5k+ dps) its because they keep a necromancer MCed for the boss fight and keep that buff up on the dpsers. It also stacks if cast by multiple necromancers on the same target - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31626
[Reply]
July 7th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I couldnt be more gratefull, we just started hyjal, killed both Rage and Anetheron on the first days but stuck when our tankadin had to stop raiding for a week, now he is back and this post will sure help us a lot … Personally i dont like all that pink and sparkles but damn , those blood elves know how to hold a crowds attention ;D
Thank you again Vene !
[Reply]
July 8th, 2008 at 3:35 am
I am a prot pally for my guild, and the way we do it is basically, me (1 prot pally), 1 druid or warrior tank.
The way we handle waves is generally I pick up everything there is and go full aoe. The extra tank just acts as a buffer between me and the raid taunting anything that may escape.
On waves with more than 4 abominations, I just use a Free action potion, just before the npcs engage on me and the extra tank will pick up 1 or 2. Chain healing on the pally tank ensured he doesn’t die on the occasional stun, and since its aoe all the way, the packs die in about a minute always giving the healers time to drink to full.
The dreadful wave 6 on the way to Azgalor is handled by banishing one fel stalker on wave 5 and pulling thrall into the fight, and let him take the first hits before cc moves in.
[Reply]
July 8th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Since we started doing 25 mans, we decided that having a tank of each class was probably the best way to handle all the bosses, and at this point (4/5 hyjal, 3/9 BT) it has really worked, we usually have an extra feral druid to pick up loose shit, but he´s mostly kitty.
The Pally Tank handles AoE Pulls(and also tanks Leotheras and Hydross´ nature phase with np)
The Warrior(me), does the MTing on bosses and hard hitting trash pulls for single mobs.
The druid, soaks up the dmg on cleaving bosses and when we have a fast hitting boss(Morogrim) we put him there.
This rolling has done very well so far, since the pally can Offheal when hes not needed, and the druid can deal a huge amount of dps on tank and spank fights that dont require an OT(Naj).
We also found out that having 2 prot warriors in a raid is a massive hit on our dps, so we avoid it as much as we can.
Good post BTW, the only thing I would add, is put a caster leader that is aware of the trash marking up targets for meele and that caster tank, Also remember that the warrior tank can be the guy that gets Jaina and Thrall involved, and trust me, it does help A LOT.
-Gaash
[Reply]
July 8th, 2008 at 10:37 am
we were able to (a month or 2 ago) scrounge up a server group for our first (and only) venture into MH. We had 1 prot pally, though not as well geared could still hold the mobs and we were told to peel off “as many as you can”. We had 4 warrior tanks (including myself) so it shouldn’t have been a problem. At first, i tried to peel 4 since the first thought was that TC can only hit 4 and cleave can only hit 2. But after mobs were stolen away from aoeing dpsers, i decided to take 3 at a time. I was still able to keep up rage and have the mobs i took stick to me. It was also easier to micro-manage the mobs (ie clicking and applying sunders). We got to Rage, but he pwned us hard since nobody seemed to notice the Death and Decay that he did underneath them..
Since that was my first time in there, it was actually fun. Unfortunately, nobody but the top guilds (all 2 of them on horde side) are in MH/BT level raids in my sever. So that might have been the last time i get to experience that instance. Great blog post vene as always.
[Reply]
July 8th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Good post Vene, as always. I am glad you posted it as I was beginning to feel a bit guilty for not tanking 5 things on every round. Actually it’s very relieving to see that I am already doing exactly what you recommend.
[Reply]
July 9th, 2008 at 2:57 am
We did it for months with 2 Def-Warriors, a feral and 2 off-Warriors.
It was hard, it was painful and it was sth. to brag about.
With a Def-Paladin, its a cakewalk.
More or less, “sit back and enjoy the show”.
[Reply]
July 10th, 2008 at 11:21 am
I’m the main Prot Pally for my guild.
The way we handle wave 6 of Az trash is that I run out with what SR gear Ido have, drop a Consecrate, and Bubble as they start casting. I run back, drop bubble, still have aggro, and we AOE them down with mages decursing the melee. Good times.
[Reply]
July 11th, 2008 at 2:09 am
Wave 6 we set the warrior up front for Spell Reflect, then sheep, thats my wave off
Other than that I tend to get to tank everything that appears, sometimes the warriors or druids pick up aboms, sometimes I am left with 6, basically barring knock down 6 aboms + everything else I can is a good mana regen rate, during knock down you need fast heals (which should really be big heals that land at the right time :P).
[Reply]
July 13th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
One thing to note with TC and Cleave (WW too but we arent a DPS community) is that the mobs that it hits is actually based on CVar distance (i assume it means Camera VARiable and it works off your position and the camera position)
you can rotate your camera to be closer to some mobs and they will be the ones being hit with the move. For cleave, it is essentially the same thing but only effective in a forward cone shape. you can keep TC up on every mob in all the packs that should be pally tanked (80% of them) withouth moving essentially
[Reply]
July 15th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Little Tip for non-Paladins: Make sure all the mobs you have aggroed are also standing in the Paladins Consecration. Especially Spiders are kind of tiresome there, they often aggro our Single-Target tanks, keep doing their ranged attack and after the first round of AoE run for a DD. So just park everything into consecration.
[Reply]