Polls: What’s your Ideal 5 man?
You’re making your way to some new bleeding edge 5 man content….
Wait… bleeding edge?
Now first and foremost, I understand for a lot of you, it’s been a while since you did 5 man content you didn’t outgear. For this exercise though, why not take a trip down memory lane. What was your ideal 5 man group when you were just learning stuff covered in blue and green gear? Every instance has it’s advantageous setups, but you and I both know that every one of us tanks has a slight preference one way or the other.
So, what’s your preference? What’s your ideal 5 man?
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July 17th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I chose the mage first for good pew pew and great CC. I chose the Warlock second for pew pew amd situational cc (Succi, banish, enslave), the Hunter third for big pew pew and trap skills that are awesome to save a healer and the Shaman healer for OMGCHAINHEALZ.
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July 17th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I am druid tank, I like locks, hunters and then druids, with a priest healer.
I am biased against mages because everyone and their mother thinks you NEED to sheep, but I believe it is nice to have, but not necessary and if I have a choice between hunter (or warlock) and Mage as my ranged, I go with the not a mage everytime!
Druid as 3rd dps to offtank if I need it, and if trouble does happen, the feral can heal or tank.
I just love priest healers as main healers… they are my favourite!
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tPaste reply on July 18, 2008 11:25 am:
hmmm…
I think for content that I don’t know or am appropriately geared for I do NEED sheep. I think of pulls in the Inciter’s room of SL that back when I was in greens and blues were just a WHOLE lot easier with sheep. I wouldn’t say impossible without, but frustrating to the point of not being fun.
This exercise works best if you pretend you’re walking into an instance you know nothing about. What is the group you would take if you could take any when you don’t know the pulls and not overgeared…for me it’s probably Mage, Warlock, Hunter, Priest.
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Jothay reply on July 21, 2008 11:14 pm:
I love it when ppl oust a class just because they want to go against the norm. Fact of the matter is, mage is best CC class in the game with those sheeps and you need them in nearly every 5 man from old world to bc content.
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July 17th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I am biased towards shadow priests (my main), but I still chose them third before a mage and a warlock. Its amazing what a good shadow priest can do in instances with mind control, fear + MF, mind vision/mind soothe..
Priest heals too because they can handle the craziness that can happen in 5-mans…
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July 17th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
My usual 5 man setup is a shaman 4 totems and stuff etc,shadow priest,and a arcane/frost mage 4 cc = this combo has insane damage and a priest healer
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July 17th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Warlock, Mage, Hunter, Paladin
Plain and Simple
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July 17th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I know vene will disagree with me on this, I am probably one of very few people that prefer this set up. I love to run with a druid for heals, so my first dpser would be a shammy or priest to cover rezzes, then from there I will pick a mage for CC if it’s so bleeding edge that I really do need the CC, after that any class is game.
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vorp reply on July 17, 2008 4:19 pm:
I tend to agree with the shaman call. I love having the extra rezzer around, and Elem shamans just murder in damage and are great for mana for my healers. And Elem shamans are fun to run with because either way you end up getting Windfury of a crapton of agi. Also, my main used to be a mage, so it really kills me when I run with a mage who can’t sheep worth a damn.
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July 17th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
So, the question is… can you guess what I chose?
(try not to ruin the game fellow guildies :P)
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Dezdemone reply on July 17, 2008 1:46 pm:
Hmmm… Vene, Mage, Mage, Mage, Priest… amirite?
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Dezdemone reply on July 17, 2008 1:49 pm:
but seriously, I am guessing
1st choice Mage, 2nd choice Rogue, 3rd choice Hunter (or warlock), and the healer is a priest.
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admin reply on July 17, 2008 2:12 pm:
lol Hunter…really? Have you heard my podcasts?
Dezdemone reply on July 17, 2008 7:10 pm:
*blush* yes hunter, I figured it’d be your last resort choice of cc…
Siouxzen reply on July 17, 2008 4:51 pm:
Oddly enough, Vene, Mage, Mage, Mage, Holy Priest is what he ends up running with a lot, but I don’t think that’s HIS ideal setup but more of “what he’s stuck with” since I put most our groups together!
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Veneretio reply on July 18, 2008 10:43 am:
Thankfully, there’s never enough mages around to have to put up with that all of the time.
Talisman reply on July 21, 2008 3:24 pm:
Me, Mage, Mage, Mage, Resto Shaman was the group I had the one and only time I did Heroic SH. I’m quite sure I could do it without it but I wanted the timed event for the TK attunement quest so I didn’t want to mess around, lol.
kuju reply on July 17, 2008 2:24 pm:
mage rogue shadowpriest priest ?
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Speidel reply on July 17, 2008 3:48 pm:
Sorry to ruin the game, but the answers are:
Ret Paladin
Ret Paladin
Ret Paladin
Resto Druid
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Kavtor reply on July 17, 2008 4:19 pm:
For -sure- Venny’s choice didn’t include warlocks named Speidel.
You’d want a resto druid healer in there instead though. 3 ret pallys with WF would be pretty fun to see.
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Cleaved reply on July 18, 2008 1:43 am:
What you chose?
Mage, Lock, Spriest, Pally?
(^_^)
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July 17th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
I think the last 5 man I did (other than tanking for some dork’s mage alt!) was a HMT, warrior tank, rogue, enhance shaman, ret pally, and a druid healer.
Who needs DPS casters with that much DPS & group utility.
Admittedly, I prefered pre-nerf Heroic Shattered Halls with mage / rogue / warlock / druid.
I’d honestly pick 4 good players regardless of class. You can make anything work with creative players.
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Lancelet reply on July 18, 2008 6:58 am:
I agree with your last statement 100%.
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July 17th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
I wouldn’t pick a rogue because in my experience 99% of rogues are just pvp-specced people constantly looking at dmg meter. Then again my own experience is 99% 5-man pugs so I haven’t really played with the serious raid people I guess.
But I always bring a mage for the sheep, and the resheep. Other than that I agree with Kavtor that you can make anything work really. As long as it’s good ppl.
*$
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Speidel reply on July 18, 2008 10:39 pm:
But being subtlety specced is the better spec fo 5 mans. Significantly larger sap range, and improved stealth should mostly eliminate the rogue from being seen while trying to sap.
Up until this last patch, rogues didn’t care about their threat, because they had cheat death to fall back on. With the new change to the talent, you should find rogues playing a lot less aggressively.
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Blithlyle reply on July 21, 2008 9:25 am:
Sub-specced rogues are not better for 5-mans. Improved sap + improved stealth? Who needs that its what distract is for. Rogues like to pull aggro? let them die once or twice until they find evasion + vanish.
Of course I may be a bit biased cause my main used to be a rogue and I never had problems in 5 mans. Well thats discounting the times I went to sap and totally forgot to stealth first but shhhh….
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July 17th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I think it entirely depends on the instance. Is it all undead? I want shadow priests for shackle as my DpS. Are they humanoid? Give me mages. Lots of elementals and demonds? Warlocks, please.
Bleeding edge content is gotten through by CC (note that I place the ability to tank as CC. You are controlling the crowd) first since if you are bleeding edge chances are things can kill you fast and the tank can’t hold down more than a couple mobs without dying faster than the healer can go.
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tPaste reply on July 18, 2008 11:28 am:
I think the exercise is suppose to be a “pretend you don’t know” sort of thing. What group would you take if you were the first people ever to play an instance and you didn’t know anything about it.
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July 17th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I went with rogue hunter warlock with a priest healer, although thats because those were the people i had access to back then. Real life friends FTW
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July 17th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Is it just me, or does anyone else despise being healed by a paladin? Maybe I’ve just never met a decent one. I seem to spike way too much without the HoTs. It makes me so nervous, but it does get me in the habit of hitting my healthstone/pot macro and the pocketwatch button.
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marklar reply on July 17, 2008 5:04 pm:
i have mixed feelings about pally healers. salvation sure makes the run nice, but the lack of group heals or HOTs probably makes a pally my least favorite 5-man healer.
especially on fights where the whole group is going to take some damage, it seems like most of them can’t keep up.
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Machus reply on July 19, 2008 8:47 pm:
Pally healers work well in groups with mages (or possibly other casters) because these casters are not going to take sustained damage. Caster DPS will either die, or survive with quick footwork and a Blessing of Protection.
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Annalyze reply on July 17, 2008 9:36 pm:
I always loved my pally healer….with a shadow priest for some pew pew and sit healing. Toss in some CC DPS (mage, warlock, hunter) and your good to go.
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Cleaved reply on July 18, 2008 1:39 am:
I think Pallies just have to have much better gear to be equal to a lesser geared Priest, in those situations. Its much like Pally tanks… imo, they need a much better gear set to tank as well as a Warrior in lesser gear. Its just the nature of their setup I guess. As healers, they have fewer spells to work with, so those spells have to get the job done by themselves. Priests just come with a lot more tricks in the bag.
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Kavtor reply on July 18, 2008 8:25 am:
There’s really no difference in gear requirements between pallys and warriors. Nor between pallys and priests for healing. Pally healing actually scales better at lower gear levels than priest healing.
The difference is pallys don’t have an AOE heal, so they can get behind on the MT if they’ve got to land a FoL on everyone in the group before dropping an HL on the tank, which sets them back on mana if they’re not well geared.
There are lots of ways the group can help out a pally healer in an aoe damage situation though.
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Cleaved reply on July 18, 2008 12:53 pm:
Maybe I just know too many crappy Pally tanks
I’ve seen Pally Tanks with better gear than my Warrior, and they have to work so much harder to do what I do, it seems. Never played one though, so only looking at it from the outside.
As to healers, I think we are on the same point. Pally healers have to work harder, because of their “lack” of better AOE, Group and different “tools” for healing. Therefore, the better their +healing, the less hard they have to work, versus a Priest with less +healing but more types of heals to throw out in tough situations. However, the subject is 5-mans and there aren’t any I can think of that absolutely exclude a Pally healer because of the type of encounter. In 5-mans the Tank should be holding threat reliably, and a single-target BIG heals healer… is best, for my preference.
July 17th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I’d go for Mage, Warlock, and a rouge. and Paladin healer
Mage is one of the hardest dps’er without buffs,(by my experience) they bring a cc aswell as int buff for lock and pala.
Warlock is really good at trash, as they have short casts, but not burst damage. They have imp aswell as seduce/banish/enslave if necessery)
Rouge, you sometimes need a meele to either make longer cast time, or interupt, aswell as rouges bring cc.
Paladin, like paladins, as they bring a selection of different buffs, aswell as they are good on focusing on one target(me) they can bubble so they can ignore healing themself for a while etc.
I’m a warrior tank, and so far, havent had any problem tanking up to 3-4 targets. so this group has enough cc. enough burst damage, etc…
tho i rather go for gear/skill b4 class.
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July 17th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I look at what kind of players ppl r more than class, some ppl r a dead give away about not knowing what they r doing on there toons.
And also what instance it is MgT i like 2 mages for good CC Mech a lock is nice to have along, SP would be a hunter for natur ress at last boss, but in the end its the player that playes
Like the hunter i had once in BM normal who totally freaked out panicking when we told him he was on the add duty, he started yelling NO…IM RANGED…NOT MELEE…
We had a big laugh trying to tell him how to, and ofc wondering how the hell he got his toon to lvl 70 in the first place (I guess E-BAY)
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badmanemo reply on July 29, 2008 9:18 pm:
killing adds could become a pain when hunters had deadzone
and anyway most people prefer to dps bosses and hate killing adds
specially with a marksman hunter + deadzone.
i kill adds in BM always when i’m playing my demo lock and always refused
to kill them with my maksman hunter when there was deadzones, no matter what others say.
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July 17th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
If I have to pick one setup for all content, I choose Mage, Lock, Hunter, Priest. I like having some cc for almost any type of mobs, and I just like priest healers. I find that ranged dps makes it easier for me to see if I have lost aggro on one mob in a multi mob pull, and the 130% threshold is nice. Also those classes have some survivability in an emergency - ice block, fear, feign death, etc.
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July 17th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
4 Warriors and a Paladin, baby.
All plate, all the time - that’s how I roll.
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Grimgorr reply on July 17, 2008 9:18 pm:
LOL!!
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July 17th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
As a warrior, my setup was mage, mage, rogue, priest. The rogue was a tossup. I could have gone with a third mage. The CC is awesome, but I really like being the only person in melee range, too. Something about a rogue or enhancement shaman nearby that throws my concentration off, but I’ve come to appreciate sap a little more lately. Priest because they are just made for 5-mans. Totems are nice, and I could see subbing an elemental shaman for the 3rd dps as well (in no small part because one of my alts is an elemental shaman). I’m not big on using shaman healers in 5-mans. Chain heal is awesome, but not really enough to keep up the MT through a heroic boss fight. HW is a super-huge heal in its own right, but it takes like half an hour to cast.
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July 17th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Enhance Shammy, Mage, Hunter, Broccolli Healer.
Mostly I like the people I pay with who play these toons, but we have decimated anything we have come across for ages.
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July 17th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Running heroics the last few months I found that I dont need CC. Instances like Shattered Halls or Botanica with their larger pulls actually help because of the rage generation boost. Instances like Blood Furnace where the mobs hit hard my gear covers so no need for CC there. I have been running with this group:
Elemental Shaman
Elemental Shaman
Boomkin
Resto Druid
The Shamans and the Druid buff each others +crit/+hit therefore do high amount of damage. Usually if there is a mob with lower hp than the others I dont even attempt to tank it because they can burn it down so fast, otherwise they give me enough time to gather threat before they chain lightning. I get totems from one of the shamans, the other shaman drops caster totems which helps my threat. If shit hits the fan we have Rezzes and Ankhs.
5 badges in ~35 minutes? Hell yeah! High dps groups FTW. CC FTL, takes my time and my rage away!
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July 18th, 2008 at 12:47 am
I believe this poll is implemented wrong. Why not make it use checkboxes for dps-ers? How do I chose my ‘first’ dps-er?
I usually go with:
1. Druid
2. Enh. Shaman
3. Mage
with Priest healing.
But the order is not important and results look strange.
Any way… Here’s why this group: Druid can offtank if something goes wrong; Shaman… WF all the way
and with mana totem I rarely have to watch the dps-ers’ mana; and a mage for in-combat reliable cc.
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admin reply on July 18, 2008 6:26 am:
Well the primary reason I didn’t go with checkboxes was if people wanted to pick triple mage… or something along that lines, it’d take an insane number of boxes to accommodate that. I also like making people prioritize their 1st, 2nd and 3rd dpser because then we get to learn what people consider important when choosing who they group with.
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July 18th, 2008 at 1:03 am
So you didn’t understand the task @Kellgoth
Back then I chose the Mage/Rogue/Hunter dps&cc team with a priest as healer. the latter because my first main was one, so i’m more confident with them.
The group i liked most was the day we did several instances as
spriest
spriest
spriest
hpriest
and of course a warrior tank (who wasn’t me)
not sure if we outgeared things already then.
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July 18th, 2008 at 1:30 am
I went with mage, warlock, rogue and priest healer. Mostly because I am used to having pocket priests. We have an awesome paladin in our guild, but damage spikes always scare me a bit, and I feel safer with a priest.
As for the DPS, my own choice pisses me off, because I despise MgT being so super-CC dependent, especially the need for mages. My guild has a lot of not so great mages, and I’d rather take any other DPS class at this level, but have to take a mage for polymorph. Lame!
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Blithlyle reply on July 18, 2008 6:29 am:
The best / quickest heroic MgT group I’ve been in was me(Warrior), Boomkin, Elemental Shaman, Rogue, Priest. The Boomkin and Shaman were all freaking out about going at first but now they bother me to run the place daily. You don’t really need much cc for the instance if you get the dps to buy into doing stuff your way.
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July 18th, 2008 at 1:33 am
Mage 1st for CC, Lock 2nd for DPS/CC/Imp, Priest (Shadow) 3rd for Hp/Mp regen/ Stam buff, Paladin 4th for great Single-target heals and Blessings.
Assuming content I’m just getting into, that group combines enough emergency CC, backup heals and buffs… to make things cake. I am a bit biased, because I have a Lock and Spriest, but because I know them so well, I know what they bring to the table. For content I overgear, I take anything that will get the job done in a timely manner.
I would be more interested in seeing Blue/Epic group compositions for H-MgT, since a lot of DPS get left in the cold because everyone wants “Mage x2 and Lock, plz!” Like pullin’ teeth to get my g/f’s SPriest in on runs
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July 18th, 2008 at 2:48 am
well currently as an overgear tankadin i will tank any geared healer, and i love 3 destro locks for dps. seed ftw.
when i was less geared, i loved any skilled healer, mage, shamen and lock combo. shamen for the spelldamage buff from totems, mage for occassional cc and magefood and dps, lock for imp and dps.
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July 18th, 2008 at 4:03 am
Back in the days of new and exiting instances, when we at one point had to give up non-heroic Arca as we simply coulkd not seem to get past the dual sentry on the bridge I rolled with a gang of old raiders and I rarely had to pug anything.
My first choice of dps is almost always a hunter. A skilled hunter’s combined dps, cc and kiting abilities are hard to beat. They also have the option of placing a trap under the healer, in thecases their traps aren’t needed at first or to dual trap for short periods. It should be mentioned that my old guild had some really excellent hunters. I once saw one of them soloing first boss in heroic MT from 30% ’till death when the rest of us had wiped. And that was in heroic/kara gear. I never puged at that point, so the many ‘tards in the world didn’t really colour my perceptions.
My second choice would generally be a rogue. Good cc and excellent single target dps.
Third would be a Warlock or Druid, mostly because a friend of mine had those two as semi-equal mains and is an excellent player.
I’ve always prefered a priest for heals, though heroic Shattered Halls were rough for the first many tries until we had gear enough to keep healer agro.
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July 18th, 2008 at 7:04 am
I rarely start group, even when leveling, most of the time I join one who is already looking for a tank and deal with the class we have. If we have no-CC then it’s a good occasion the learn to deal without it.
Kinda give a feeling of challenge and “surprise bag”. You don’t always have the best situation/group so better be used for that early.
But if I have to make a group for smooth/relax run, I go for Mage/Lock/SPriest. This combo covert almost any kind of CC. good mana regen, so we stop less, good synergy for spell dmg, backup healer in shitty time, 2nd rezer, soulstone, shit load of fear, 2nd tank with a MC…
I have no preference fro healer except that I find useful to have a pally healer in plate who not get 1-shoted when a mob slip thru and run to him.
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July 18th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Well, Cleaved said it faster than me lol.
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Cleaved reply on July 18, 2008 1:00 pm:
Yes, but later I realized I forgot to mention: Soulstone, Healthstones, enhanced spell damage with CoE, 2nd Rezzer and Fears. It is a very good group with LOTS of tricks up their sleeves. The only drawback… is if people don’t know when/how to use those tricks.
I played a Warlock for 2 years or so, and I know Seduce is unreliable, just as much so as Trap, but if you know how to use it… very nice indeed in a pinch. Anyone that plays a lock should know: Searing Pain => Seduce, so when it breaks (in heroics) your Succubus doesn’t get destroyed in one hit while trying to re-cast. You also become like a Hunter and can “reposition” the mob since it will run to where you are standing. I find I spend more time running and intervening to a healer/huntard because of them not being able to get a new trap down… so I left Hunters out of my group makeup. If I overgear something, then its not an issue
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July 18th, 2008 at 7:31 am
perfect 5-men for me
Prot Warrior
Resto Shaman
Frost Mage
Moonkin Druid
Warlock
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July 18th, 2008 at 9:35 am
For a 5 man? Can I be the DPSer and a pally tank be the tank?
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July 18th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Dream 5-man:
Prot Paladin
Fury Warrior (Me)
Ret Paladin
Enhancement Shaman
Resto Shaman
Might and Salv, SoE, WF and GoA, Sanctity for the tank, complete chaos
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July 18th, 2008 at 9:41 am
with some gear, by far the most successful group ive run with is:
warr
warr
warr
warr
shaman
if its a harder heroic, you can sub in one of the warrs with a resto druid. obviously not a great group for new/learning content, but nothing beats the speed of tearing everything apart.
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Fustigator reply on July 19, 2008 9:14 am:
Haha, memories…we did that with a holy priest in Stockades my first time through. It was beautiful!
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Djiss reply on July 21, 2008 6:50 am:
My first Shadow Lab, we were me (fury war as tank), 3 rogue, 1 pally tank.
Cleared to place in 1hrs, and we were all in blue.
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July 18th, 2008 at 10:41 am
I picked Ret Pally, Enh Shaman, Feral Druid and Resto Shaman.
Yes as a matter of fact its all about MEMEMEME!
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Veneretio reply on July 18, 2008 10:42 am:
What? No Arms warrior to do all of your Shouts?
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Tara reply on July 18, 2008 12:08 pm:
For the last time, Vene… Fury>Arms XD
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Kavtor reply on July 18, 2008 12:30 pm:
Blood frenzy makes for 4% bigger shield slams!
Ivanstone reply on July 18, 2008 12:56 pm:
Shouts? Its a 5 man. Only sissies use Commanding Shout in a 5 man.
Arms warrior is still tempting. Feral Druid + Arms Warrior + Blood Bath would give the new dungeons the abattoir-like effect I would like to see in the future.
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July 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
What I find most interesting about this poll is that it implies you have a choice of what classes you take to your 5-mans.
I don’t think I’ve ever had a time when I got to choose who I took. I just took whoever responded to my lfg spam. That takes long enough that I couldn’t imagine wanting to find specific classes.
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Machus reply on July 19, 2008 8:43 pm:
Conventional wisdom is that the tank finds the healer, they start a group and gather the DPS. I did that at first but got so-so results. Once I became well-geared for 5-mans and could afford be choosy I got the habit of joining the group *last*. Just lurk in LFG and look at the groups that are forming. When you see one that has the right composition, well-geared players, etc. ask to join it. This way takes longer, but you don’t have to be a bad guy and reject people who ask to join your group.
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adenosine reply on July 19, 2008 9:10 pm:
I would never get a party with that strategy. I see a near fully formed group about once every other day, usually for the daily heroic.
I’m lucky if I see anybody in lfg for an instance, let alone party complete with healers and dps.
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Cleaved reply on July 21, 2008 11:10 am:
/agree
I pull from Guild and Friends list. THEN go to LFG channel/window. I hate to be picky and exclude people from a run, but I’m not going with 3 rogues, 2 bomkins, 2 SP’s, etc etc… I’d rather spread out the talent a bit and give anyone there looking for loot a little less in the way of competition. I don’t like to load up on ONE class and am not a huge fan of melee DPS, even though I have a Rogue at 70. I’ll take one Melee, but especially on newer content, I like the relative safety that some max-range provides for the DPS.
LFG does suck ever since people got everything they needed from badges and had enough stock-piled to get 2.4 loot. Nobody runs anything anymore, not even non-heroics. I used to level up my Alts in instances, no grinding/questing, now that is very hard to do.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
——IF—— Your arms warrior does GOOD DPS, you have an enhancement shaman, and your tank isn’t the best at threat generation, then yes, arms is a lot better for raiding.
But fury is a crap-ton more fun to be.
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July 18th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I never want a lock in a 5-man I’m undergeared for. I HATE locks unless you outgear the content. They pull agro like it was their job, and they have no practical CC for half or more of pulls.
And I’ve never run a new 5-man where a lock didn’t wipe us at least once because he/she fears mobs into other mobs.
For new 5 mans I take as many mages are available, and a rogue or hunter to fill remaining slots. I don’t really care which class of healer as long as they are equivalently geared, although I do like the Shammy chain heal for those oh sh!t moments.
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Cleaved reply on July 18, 2008 1:14 pm:
I think that is more an argument of Pug vs. Guild/friends, eh?
My Warlocks in guild know what to do, when to do it, how to do it. They also know how to avoid pulling aggro, or manage it when they do. I will agree that Warlocks and Hunters are less than reliable if Pugged into a group. However, Mages have been by far the most chosen in most of these group setups above… and Mages like to rip aggro a LOT, in my experience. People just tolerate them more because Sheep is THE most reliable CC, 2nd only to Banish (but that requires Demons/Elementals). Everything else breaks and takes time to reapply, can’t be redone while still applied or can’t be re-applied in combat. As to Fears, they shouldn’t be done unless absolutely necessary and in areas that have been fully cleared to allow the mob(s) to run. A good Affliction Lock can fully DoT and fear a Mob and kill it by themselves, placing DoTs on the main targets in-between.
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Djiss reply on July 21, 2008 7:02 am:
I have a friend lock who go like that. He pull agro all the time, and I let him die all the time. Half on purpose, Half by accident. Normally whne he finally manage to pull agro, the mob is about to die so I just let it go. But sometime, he reach my friend before the last hit…
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Cleaved reply on July 21, 2008 11:12 am:
Yeah, I think Vene posted something a while back regarding “knowing when to let the mob go, and knowing when you have to taunt” or something along those lines.
I let mobs go all the time, IF, I know who they are targeting, how survivable they are and if they know how to handle the last 5% hp of a trash mob on their own. For newer players in a group, I Intervene/Taunt or sometimes all it takes is a lil bump with Shield Slam as they run by you.
July 18th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Personal choice;
Mage
Mage
Rogue(Sap)/Mage(More sheep!)/Lock (Blood pact and CC in certain circumstances)
Priest
I’m just level 63 at this point in time but ive ran enough pugs to deny huntards a place in my group.
I’ve had lots of bad experiences with hunters >.
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Minsc reply on July 30, 2008 2:23 am:
Not every hunter is a huntard.
My main is a hunter, knowing to let the leader / tank lead. Knowing everyones role is the main rule of making a pug succeed.
Some advantages of a hunter:
-misdirect (MAYOR threat on tank)
-trap (if done correctly)
-pet (trashkilling while hunter DPS’es main target)
-Feign Death (should be on every hunters main shoot cicle, to go to zero threat)
So please dont be biased against hunters
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Seab reply on August 7, 2008 12:22 am:
Don’t take it too personally, its just every run I did with hunters before I made that post was ruined by said hunter.
The thing is with hunters is that a bad hunter is VERY bad, but a good hunter is amazing, its just luck that lands you with reliable cc and dps or a complete idiot.
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July 18th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Mage, Mage, Mage, Priest, and a stack of invisibility potions.
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July 19th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Ideal five man ? No melee (ok, sometime, rogue it’s ok) !
BTW, Veneretio, why you put a +240 armor on your gloves ? Why dont you put +stam or +agi ?
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Veneretio reply on July 19, 2008 12:31 pm:
I have 120 Armor on my cloak as well
240 Armor > 10 Stamina for Effective Health and I simply don’t desire more Avoidance on gloves that I choose to use to maximize Effective Health.
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Juniorkiller reply on July 19, 2008 2:19 pm:
TYVM for the quick reply
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July 19th, 2008 at 8:53 am
As I was new and considerably undergeared, when I ran heroic mech for sun eater (Arcane charged destroyers with 10k hp, anyone?) I always ran this setup:
Mage first, for pewpew and CC obviously
Rogue, for the CC, interupts and obviously the pewpew
Lock, for blood pact (Hunter could work for additional CC but 3 CC isn’t really needed)
And a priest healer for versatile healing with both hots, aoe heals and big tank heals, as well as additional HP for me.
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July 19th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Hunter,mage, rogue and priest.
Trap works on almost anything. Sheep is always nice and sap/stun/blind evasion is nice. And a priest healer, they have heals that fits in most situations.
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July 20th, 2008 at 1:17 am
As I only rolled this warrior last december due to a massive lack of tanks in our guild I never did bleeding edge five-man content on this besides MgT/MrT when it was released which gearwise required me to have 3CC and a Shaman as healer for Heroism/Bloodlust.
On my hunter I used to go for this:
* Feral Druid / Prot Warrior
* Hunter (Myself)
* Mage
* Warlock / Shadow Priest / Elemental Shaman
* Holy Priest
Extra benefit on the side is that pretty much all hunter loot was a non-contest.
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July 20th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Well, since I’ve been playing exclusively five-man content since character creation with the same five-man group of friends and family, this might be a bit biased. But never mind
We basically picked classes to give us as much flexibility as we could manage, thus;
*Prot Warrior (me)
Because prot warriors are teh awesome. Obviously.
*Fire mage
Great damage, sheep is very useful when we’re doing new stuff or tough pulls. And Arcane Brilliance, um, helps me deal with the self-worth issues I have from the rest of guild sniggering about my mighty 32 Intellect.
*Feral druid
Good DPS, combat rez, CC for beasts, emergency heals occasionally, and a very capable offtank if needed. Superb ‘firefighting’ class, IMO. Plus the healing from Improved Leader of the Pack scales with my EH to an extent, which I really like.
*Shadow priest
Damage and group heal/mana regen, rez, CC for undead. Does tend to stack threat and gets excited when Omen turns her screen “a pretty red colour” but that sort of thing keeps a tank on his toes, right?
*Resto shaman
Group buffs with totem, interrupts, rez, ankh can be a real time-saver, and Ancestral Fortitude can be huge. Also, /love Earth Shield - along with LOTP, and shadow priest dripheals, can often keep me topped off on trash without any large heals coming inn.
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:40 am
Assuming this is “Bleeding Edge” 5-man content, I prefer the following. Of course the setup would change drastically if the instances were existing TBC 5-Mans, which in some cases would not include myself! (Heroic Shattered Halls)
First DPS: Rogue. Due to CC and threat mgmt. abilties, I put a rogue at the top. Not to mention, being able to Distract in order to not have to wait on pats is worth it’s weight in gold if you’re trying to burn through. Trying to wake people up after waiting for a minute or two can be tricky, as WoW’s narcoleptic population is pretty high.
Second DPS: Mage. Sheep - obviously. Also, well played AoE makes the non-elite aoe-fest pulls not suck so bad as I Thunderclap mobs four-at-a-time.
Third DPS: Feral Druid for DPS and offtanking or high avoidance Rogue. (See Above)
Healer: Resto-Shaman. I don’t have any technical bias towards them, but I’ve always had the best of luck/most fun running along side one. They must attract a different kind of player, as I’ve never seen one that wasn’t dedicated to doing the best job possible.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:28 pm
1st DPS: Hunter. I am blessed with having skilled and creative hunters in my guild whom have made a complex pull almost easy.
2nd DPS: mage: CC, aoe, table
3rd DPS: shaman. Love the totems and the off-heal when things go south. Too many times has a wipe been prevented by a shaman/hunter team.
healer: paladin. with the shammy, you can tailor the buffs the pull every time. It makes learning an instance great.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I would definitely want a shaman along on runs I was undergeared for, Blood Lust is godly for 5-man bosses since it almost lasts the whole fight. Other than that it’s hard to say without knowing the actual instance. To cover all bases you’d take a mixture of CC and to optimise damage you’d want classes that synergise well like rogue, hunter, feral/enhance, or mage, lock, boomkin/elemental.
To flip it completely on it’s head, for runs I’m hideously OVERgeared for, I love burst melee teams. I’ve run with rogue, enhance, feral a few times and loved it. I don’t even have to tank the skull I just hit it with concussive blow and it’s dead before it wears off.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Who picks warriors for any dps spot?
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July 21st, 2008 at 4:51 pm
1. Mage
2. Rogue
3. Warlock
4. Priest
Love this group setup, cause it’s actually optimizing your cc’s and in most cases the dps. (Unless the lock is having a hard time seducing). Simply loce this group setup. (and when it comes to the healer my reason may be bad stated. I just simply love them.)
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July 22nd, 2008 at 4:06 am
Mage/Lock/Priest for the dps, because they have a good amount of CC between them, they buff each other’s damage, and the shadowpriest really helps make up for gear the healer and/or tank is missing.
Priest for the healer, just because they have a good heal for every situation.
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July 24th, 2008 at 1:14 am
I can’t choose because its mainly depend of the kind of the tank (pally, warrior or druid) and the instance we wants to do.
By example for shattered halls i prefer a pally tank i don’t care about the cc dps. Any class can be good as dps.
For shadow labs a warrior tank and any cc you can grab.
For healer i always prefer a priest because they are good in all situations. Shammy are fine too, pally in some case (no HOT or group heals) and i never run with a druid resto.
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July 25th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
New content, ideal group:
I chose my healer first and it’ll be a resto shaman.
Excellent heals, doesn’t die in one hit and the great utility with totems, can still put down windfury when needed earthshield and ofcourse bloodlust.
DPS: three casters because of the synergy, Mage warlock shadowpriest.
Mage because of the CC, can iceblock when needed frostnova is pretty good and makes food for the other casters.
Warlock: very nice dps, got CC, impbuf, soulstone and healthstone, gives a lot survivability.
Shadowpriest: does provide fortitude, not as good as a holy priest but still good, makes sure my casters don’t run out of mana and can easily thin out groups by sacrificing himself with an MC. Also, can pop to normal form fast and help heal.
Why not warriors, paladins, rogue and hunters? They’re good classes but they need on my gear and with this setup I can also need on all dps gear :P:P:P:P
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awarlock reply on July 27, 2008 3:05 am:
Yes! PieterB FINALLY picked the most desirable group you could ever want for 5 mans. Mage-Warlock-Shadow Priest-Shaman. This group is even better than it was before because the new warlocks Curse of Elements will now buff ALL the casters damage. CC for any situation is available, Shadow Priest provides great synergy and stamina to everyone, especially the warlock, and can throw a shield on a healer or dps that gets the unwanted attentions of a mob or a tank that’s about to take a life threatening amount of damage. Mind Control is available. Off healing is available. Mages and Locks have a number of tools to throw so much damage at a mob that it won’t ignore it and they will still outlive the unfortunate mob; IceBlock, Soul Shatter, frost nova, Deathcoil, fear. Also if there needs to be some AOE pulls the mage and lock can throw out enough aoe damage to destroy any non-elite group before they know they should stop attacking the tank. The warlock provides everyone with their own instant heal and coupled with shammy popping makes running back after a wipe (unlikely) a thing of the past. The shamans totems provide additional synergy with the casters or can provide situational buffs as needed. Bloodlust on 5 man bosses is God Mode, undeniably the single biggest reason a shaman must be the healer, BLOODLUST ON 5 MAN BOSSES IS THE IWIN BUTTON. This dps healer make-up is so good its unfair; it has the best CC, the best synergy, the most versitality, and if at all geared can throw out so much damage that CC will not be needed beyond the Lock occasionally DeathCoiling a mob he pulled because his damage was boosted to near raid level and he wasn’t ready for it. In fact, this group is so good the only questionable member is the tank. Any tank with a pulse can complete this group but what is prefered? Druids are attractive because they provide an additional buff and beast CC, but frankly, only the best druid tanks can handle the aggro this group could generate with its multiple synergies and damage boosting, and additional CC is not needed. Same for Pally’s, good buffs, but not needed since there is a shaman in the group. With the CC available in this group the mobs are going to taken in a set kill order and they are going to generate alot of hate towards the casters melting their faces off. As the best single target aggro generator and the tank with the most ways of attracting a stray mobs attention when it absolutely must, a warrior would be my choice to complete this super group. *Note, having an ele shammy as dps and priest as healer is a possible variation, but the Shadow Priest brings alot more to the group than the Holy Priest and the Shaman would bring essentially the same thing so Spriest and shammy healer is superior.
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Khrushchev reply on July 27, 2008 7:00 pm:
Good lord, man. Put a carriage return in there somewhere.
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Spaz reply on July 28, 2008 12:06 am:
Yeah, I didn’t read it because of that.
July 28th, 2008 at 12:34 am
ya you did, reply to the content, not the format or spelling or typography, this is the internet, go enroll in legal writing 101 if you want to care about that shit. Or just bitch about how, “but i cant read it when its like that”, you probably will anyway.
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Spaz reply on July 28, 2008 2:48 am:
Ah yes, where the internet shines; throwing off the shackles of education in order to make presumptions and attacks against people whom you don’t know, and didn’t actually speak a single negative word about you.
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awarlock reply on July 28, 2008 3:03 am:
Why are we talking about this? Do you want to comment on my analysis of the perfect group or not? You’re the one attacking my lack of carriage returns, so what? It’s readable, read it. This thread is about the perfect group for 5 mans, I posted about that, now you post about that, simple.
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Veneretio reply on July 28, 2008 7:12 am:
awarlock, you are being overly defensive and jumping to offensive language very quickly.
You have to understand that part of the reason that people enjoy this place is due to the quality of the comments. Readability is just as important as the actual content behind your comments.
July 28th, 2008 at 7:22 am
Try doing Heroic Shattered Halls with two melee dps (warrior/rogue) & enhance shaman as a warrior tank without a wipe within gauntlet time limit.
Then you can consider yourself a decent warrior tank.
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July 28th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Warlock , Shaman , Rogue dps set up
with a paladin healer
or maybe a shadow priest to help the healer at times i just love the surivability of plate wearers ans shamans and rogues kick out intense dps warlock too. this combo unlike a mage will work for longer fights were the warlock and rogue really shine and shaman for shorter burst damage fights.
IMO u wont need sheep with the shaman and rogue beable to to pratically stop every cast of a caster mob whilst they burn them down no tank needed and no OH shit sheep broke ! shotted.
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July 29th, 2008 at 9:30 am
well as a well geared warrior tank in a 5 man i still love to have a mage for the just incase times when a pat pulls or some thing like that.
like a warlock as second dps for pew pew and the imp bloodpact is always nice
third is a hunter for traps and kite ability if need great in some instances
and pally as dps just out of the question
druid heals ftw by far the can regen mana sooo fast and HoTs are the best plus they can make there HoTs instancta heal and have instancta heal plus HoTs and an aoe heal it is just a win win
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PieterB reply on July 29, 2008 1:33 pm:
I probably would not go with a druidhealer. On the short fights and if there’s damage there’s chunks to be healed I think a primarily hot-based healing class in 5 man instances is the weakest.
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July 29th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
My main being a Shadow Priest I know how useful MC can be in the old instances, and it’s golden in Shadow Lab, Shattered Halls and Steamvaults, and my two other 70s are both warriors so I’ve had a few varieties of groups while tanking.
I still like mages sheeping and high pewpew, put rogues second for the sap mainly, it was the classical setup I mostly got. Set priests on 3rd since I know how well I worked in groups MCing the highest damage mob or healer mobs and giving extra healing+mana to the group.
My healer choice is the druid for mobility, downside is the corpse running when you wipe. But I felt I wiped less with them =) so it was worth it.
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July 30th, 2008 at 2:34 am
My “guild” is the (real life) friendgroup of:
Prot-Warrior (me)
Frost-Mage
Holy-Priest
(we are at lvl 66/67 so not endgaming yet)
When we do instances, any DPS-er, or anyone willing to do DPS,can join.
Because we three know what to do, all others are just a nice extra.
Just the willing to learn from alle experiences is nesceccary for all in a PUG. Everyone was learning at some point, give others the opportunity to learn too. Even in “odd grouped” groups (like pally/hunt/hunt/hunt/druid group i once did with my main).
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July 31st, 2008 at 7:18 am
Well, I’m a Tankadin, so my idea is a bit different. Mage and Warlock for the massive AoE blasts, and either a Hunter (I love MD, and I often run with a couple of very good hunters) or a rogue (as long as he knows NOT to sap).
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August 1st, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Best Group i ever ran with…
Warrior Tank (ME)
Mage
Mage
Mage
and a priest healer
Only worked becuae the 3 mages were brothers in the same room and could time their sheep’s exactly. but 3 sheeps and 3 fireballs is pretty awesome. I never had to tank more then one target unless they were unsheepable. but if everyone foloows marks. then no worries
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August 5th, 2008 at 8:44 am
For me best group is:
1.Mage
2.Rouge or SPriest(depending on the instance)
3.Hunter
4.Priest
I need CC only because all my gear are blue and i been tanking heroic since early 70’s when i was wearing few green..so now i am more use to it..But as i am getting more exprience on tanking and got few epic..i am planning to get fury warrior or shaman or fer druid instead of rouge…I will stick with hunter because my hunter friend is always top on damage list and his traps, AOE and MD are very usefull, also mage bcoz it makes us run the heroic faster altho i dont need now..if no mage than i will prefer SPriest..All i can say is it all depends on your tanking skill and what instance you are running…But hunters are my fav..
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Nachielous reply on August 5, 2008 5:12 pm:
Spriest = Fail Im tired of saving then when there cc fail. Its just
unreliable like 75% of the time.
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Alkingson reply on August 6, 2008 8:17 pm:
No there shackle never fails..plus if i get Spriest i can use stamina buffs and u can get druid or pally healer…plus they can MC as well also if u knw ur position and how to use them its all good…any heroic or raid 40-50% success depends on tank..its not easy..u should have plan B if cc fails..which doesent happen too often,,but one thing is for sure tanks r always under pressure to perform..cant releax..
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August 5th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
I picked a Mage/Rogue/Hunter..I hate classes who call tanks nubs because they refuse to invite then into a run. Im sorry but Im a warrior I tank as a off spec I love fury warriors and we out dps alot of classes but I refuse to take one on a 5 man. QQ some more
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August 5th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
1st would be warlock. SS for accidental wipes and imba dps.
For 2nd dps i choose rogue. Rogue is the only pure dps class in the game.
3rd i choose enha shaman for windfury so i can maintain 800-1000 tps even on clothies.
Priest is the ultimate healer.
2nd setup would be mage and shadowpriest with Spriest. Fast badgerun heroix cuz ppl never oom with good geared Spriest hanging around.
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August 6th, 2008 at 4:25 am
Just editing my last post
I meant Mage warlock and Spriest for 2nd setup. And when theres no enha shammy hanging around i like pally healer for salvation.
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August 6th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
For reference: I am a druid tank.
1. Mage - I loves my sheepsies.
2. Shaman (Enhance) - Grace of Air is teh awesome (+5%ish avoidance!? WIN!), and an enhance shaman makes me pay proper attention to threat generation. Also, ankh is handy and if we have trouble, they can add offheals.
3. Hunter - My girlfriend’s a hunter, I’ll always bring her if I can. Also, she traps real good.
4. Druid for healing - HOTs for the win.
If I was going to swap any one of those out, I’d swap the shaman for a DPSing priest (smite or shadow) for mind-control, ressing and additional heals.
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