Topics:
- Noobs
- P*****ns
- Threat on Banishes
- Hit Rating
- And More!
Podcast #6: You're all Noobs! [16:43m]:
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July 30th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
I just wanted to wish you good luck that the Paladins who listen to this actually listened to the very end.
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July 30th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
You don’t know any paladins?! /chuck tomatoes
I still remember when I was first called a noob - I went to WC (I didn’t know what it was) and was asked to tank (I didn’t know what that was). 8 months later I tanked MC for the first time, I feel now like I only knew slightly more than I did standing outside WC.
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July 31st, 2008 at 12:37 am
Yay, a podcast. I think my “noob” moment was in Uldaman, or maybe Maraudon. Being called a noob in the Deadmines is normal and doesn’t count.
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July 31st, 2008 at 1:35 am
Hey, I think you should put too much effort in shield bashing Hexlord. Nasty guy he is, the only healing class you can relaxed shield bash is shaman. (yeah I bash mage a lot^^). Because as Paladin ( they really suck when called
) he always consecrates, and seconds after, heals and you better run out of the consecrate and give a shit about your mages/shamans not able to interrupt it.
Same for Priest, which is by far the worst call. When your raid gets Mcd and your get feared behind a corner, because everyone else is busy inot dying, I better concentrate on not dying, etc.
I also experienced that when you are able to interupt him, most others also do. I still try, but as above, it is very low on my priority list. Makes me feel good though
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Sarris reply on August 1, 2008 12:23 am:
Yay he used my question!
My question was answered, thanks a lot. I didn’t really think about just using HS, but thats what I will do now.
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July 31st, 2008 at 1:39 am
Kav has my tale of noobery, it was 3 years ago, but he will never forget.
oh and F*****G P******S
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Kavtor reply on July 31, 2008 9:09 am:
Just because sinister strike uses less energy, does not mean it’s good for daggers mkay?
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July 31st, 2008 at 3:14 am
u rok, thx again
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July 31st, 2008 at 3:37 am
My noob moment was on a pug in Shadow Labs normal with my T5 equivalent gear whilst tanking in fury spec; which they knew beforehand.
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July 31st, 2008 at 4:58 am
p******s ahahahahahahahahahaha
i agree completely on the “noob” business. I’m now tanking (both “main” and “off-tanking” as our tanks rotate) sunwell! working on brut at the moment!
i was the BIGGEST noob there was for a long time but when it came to me and i just got good!
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July 31st, 2008 at 5:32 am
Sometimes being called a noob is because the people calling you that are the noobs!
My Example: Heroic Steamvaults. Two hunters in my group both at the same time called me a noob because I had too much defense and not enough resilience to tank. (505 defense and 0 resilience)… thats actual PvE gear guys!
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Anachron reply on September 1, 2008 3:29 am:
Welcome to the Heroic Keys at Honored rep experience mate! ^_^
Where PvP meets PvE
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July 31st, 2008 at 9:16 am
My first noob moment? probably trying to solo RFC for half an hour at level 12 or so. Lots and lots of pots. And corpse runs.
Most recent noob moment - mocking blow on Kalecgos after my taunt resisted last night. Guess what happens when the previous tank vanishes into a portal, and mocking blow wears off? You loose all that pretty threat lead into the shadow realm. 3 seconds of exploding mages and warlocks until the taunt CD comes back up. Followed by a taunt resist.
So… don’t use a temporary taunt when you get a resist if that tank is going to go away! Suck it up, and wait for your regular taunt to come back up.
So it can resist again.
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Rochelle reply on August 2, 2008 4:11 pm:
Thats really strange. The first portal doesnt show until a good 30 seconds into the fight so the tank has all the threat that Kalec built during those 30 seconds. So if a tank were to get ported out without a taunt, the threat ought to go to Kalec, the mages and warlocks wouldnt catch up unless they are putting out ridiculous amounts of threat.
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July 31st, 2008 at 9:24 am
@ Skeletaur: Dude I had exactly the same thing happen. I mean EXACTLY the same thing. I was in a pug heroic steamvaults group with two BM hunters, druid healer and a lock. I swear this hunter told me I needed to work on my resilience (I was in full T4 at the time) to become uncrushable……at that point my good sense returned to me, I realized that it WAS worth it to wait for more guildies to log on and I bid that doomed group adieu.
My first true noob moment was almost 3 years ago. I was Arms specced in Mara with some lvl 60 guildies running me and my wife’s rogue through. The rogue that was leading the group was getting owned by the Princess and I remember him yelling at me “do something! tank her!” I said I don’t know how to tank (this was literally the first time I’d ever been asked to up until that point), and asked him what to do. He said to sunder her. So I sundered her……..once. I didn’t even know that you could stack 5 sunders at that time! XD So the next thing I remember, I was 60, had just crafted my enchanted adamantite armor and poof! Now I’m tanking MC. Talk about a trial by fire, no?
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Cleaved reply on August 1, 2008 11:07 am:
Really not a fan of Hunters.
Ran a Heroic SV back when I still needed Devilshark Cape… never got it, out-rolled by a Huntard claiming it as an “upgrade.”
I never did get that cape, got the badge one before it dropped.
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July 31st, 2008 at 10:51 am
I rerolled from a spriest to a tank b/c that was what our group was lacking. So they helped me out from lvl 70 start—>kara, tanking slabs with a green shield and gemmed with strength/stam gems, called a noob the whole time b/c of low threat and lack of experience. Sigh. Of course now I MT BT and they don’t complain anymore.
Or I let them die. “OMG I NO HAS RAGE FOR SHIELD SLAM! SRRY”.
BWAHAHAHA
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Cleaved reply on August 1, 2008 11:06 am:
I went from a Lock to a Warrior, and having done most content into 25-mans, I felt I had a good grasp on everything. I was wrong. Its like thinking you understand football from the sidelines vs. actually being under Center. You dictate the pace, you mark the mobs, you have to know every ability they do so you mark them the right order, you have to know the tendencies of mobs and those of certain people in your group. You keep internal timers in your head for buffs, debuffs and CC.
Now though, I am a better Warlock when I play him or any other toon, because I have tanked and understand more than I ever had to as a simple button-mashin’ DPS. True, all classes hafta look out for certain things, but not nearly as much as a Tank.
I overcame a lot of noob-ness by mothballing my tank and paying a LOT more attention when on another toon. Tanking from 58-70 also helped, instead of leveling/grinding with quests. If anyone has a choice in making a new Tank, even if it takes longer to reach 70, this is by far the best way to learn, imo.
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Machus reply on August 1, 2008 2:33 pm:
Same here, I though I knew a fair bit after playing a mage for over two years. A tank needs to know a stunning amount more.
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July 31st, 2008 at 11:51 am
Vene, I have an addendum to my question about expertise vs. hit rating. Actually, a couple.
First, is it worth gemming hit rating at T4/Badge gear levels, when there is an abundance of expertise on the badge items?
Second, even if it is worth gemming hit rating, isn’t stam just better? (I guess it depends on which set: EH/progression, or threat).
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J.R. reply on July 31, 2008 11:54 am:
Oh, also, glad to hear another podcast! Keep it up!
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July 31st, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Let me guess you’re the editor!
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July 31st, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I haven’t listened to it yet, but I’m already offended. Not because you called me a noob, but because you’re Canadian.
/lick Vene
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July 31st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I”m hoping I won’t have too many noob moments when I level my warrior since I have access to Vene and his site, and I can read what everyone else did and hopefully learn from that =)
My first noob moment though in WoW…. when I drowned as an undead warlock, because I didn’t know I had the spell ending breath. Oh ya I was somewhere between lvl 40-50 =( I’ve had many more noob moments since then but that’s for another day.
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Kry reply on August 15, 2008 6:29 pm:
I have 2. I was in Kara as a Fury warr. asked to of tank something lo went to start and relized i had never used Deffesive stance and had no buttons >..
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July 31st, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Another good one Vene.
Guck Faladins.
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Speidel reply on August 2, 2008 11:16 am:
What’s a Galadin?
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July 31st, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Remember to all the “noobs” that if you perservere and keep pluggin away, you’ll become better. Keep runnin the heroics, get comfortable with pulling, intervening, marking and you’ll get there. Also for all the ppl on high horses or on soapboxes, nothing better than being called a newb to bring you back down to earth. I’ve happen a couple of times myself. haha
Vene. i can still hear p*****n thru some of the bleeps. =D
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Veneretio reply on July 31, 2008 4:51 pm:
lol that was kinda the point.
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July 31st, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Good work as always, Vene.
Have been sticking with the same guild of IRL friends and family for every instance I’ve ever tanked… but once we all ding 70 in a week or so, I’m going to be plunging into PUG territory for the first time (guild only meets every couple of weeks and I’m aiming to do instances much more frequently than that for gear and, later, badges.)
So I’m kinda bracing myself for the first noobcall, and will try to keep this podcast in mind!
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July 31st, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Haha, love the podcast
And you’re right, warriors are by far the best
But anyway, that noob thing is something I tend to feel very strongly about. I swapped from Fury to Prot spec as soon as I hit 60 and started farming as many 5-mans as I could from then until 70 because I wanted to get experience.
There was something about those first few levels (60-62), I got a LOT of noob calls, which I took exception to because frankly I had done a hell of a lot of reading and research (had read all the articles on this site for instance) and while I lacked experience tanking I’d had heaps of experience on my hunter and knew the instances, knew the fights, frankly knew that I was doing well considering my gear and level. I got called out on stupid things like pulling when the healer was *only* at 70% mana, or losing agro to overnuking dpsers 6 levels higher than me.
You’re right, it’s very demoralising and frustrating, even if you don’t believe what they’re saying, some days I was ready to give it up, but I kept at it, kept tanking, and now I’m almost ready to start tanking Sunwell.
Did I mention the most annoying and obnoxious in that 60-62 phase was a P******? True story.
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July 31st, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Actually Vene, Hex Lord will cast his first spell when there is about 75% left on his soul siphon timer, and the second time around at about 25%, and he will ALWAYS cast the spells in the same order for a particular soul siphon. Hence, tanks can probably continue their threat rotation for about 10 seconds or so after a soul siphon begins.
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Sanelora reply on August 1, 2008 6:32 am:
Good observation
- i have a bear mount and never noticed that /blush
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Cowcowcow reply on August 6, 2008 11:16 am:
Our group has aobut 12-13 bears.
The pull outside of Hex Lord?
Always fail.
Always.
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Whitewandir reply on August 1, 2008 7:58 am:
small tip:
Keep doing your threat rotation , but alter your slam/revenge/devastate/devastate order a bit (or skip shield slam) so you’ll have shield slam available for when he’ll buff himself (right after conceration, while you’re moving him).
That way you won’t need to rely on the shaman/priest/mage to get it off: just slam it off
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August 1st, 2008 at 11:19 am
I’ve had experience tanking with all 3 classes up to the MH level. My best friend is my previous guilds best geared tank (paladin) and yet he never gets to tank anything beyond Gruul. I can’t help but laugh at the paladin thing, mainly because there is no middle ground as far as paladin tanks go, they either know what they are doing or are just god awful.
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Signu reply on August 1, 2008 12:44 pm:
That’s the truth! I think the difference is good paladin = adult, bad paladin = 10 year old.
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August 1st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
The noob moments do happen to all of us, and mine was bad.
It was my first time in Mags and I was getting excited, we moved off to the Channeler’s. I got to mine and… Right clicked.
Only me and 2 heals I saved made it out.
I coped a lot of crap but I learnt and I think thats the most important thing of all for a tank to do.
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August 2nd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
PUG’s are noobs I remember I pugged a lock for more first Heroic Shattered Halls run. While it is much easier on a P****in, I wanted to do my trials of the naaru quest. Anyway so I got my Warrior in there and this damn lock threw a shadowbolt everytime i gun pulled. Needless to say he called me a noob for not being able to hold threat. I grabbed a better lock and completed it flawlessly.
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August 2nd, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Taunt goes through immunities, including banish, and WILL generate threat following its standard mechanics, no matter when in the duration of the banish you use it.
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Ninano reply on August 3, 2008 5:11 am:
Rochelle, I believe Kavtor meant the transition from one tank to another on dragon, not demon form. We had the same thing happen the other day on our attempt. I was tanking dragon form, the demon phase tank came up and moved into place to taunt him off of me. He taunted, and got resisted. He proceeded to mocking blow dragon off of me, and I went and took my portal.
Here’s where the wipe happened: Taunt places you at the top of the threat table. Challenging shout and mocking blow do NOT, they simply lock the mob onto you for ‘X’ amount of seconds, and then go back to whatever the current threat table dictates. As soon as mocking blow wore off, his threat table said to go back to punching me in the face…except I was in demon realm tanking by this point in time. As a result, he went to the next highest person on the threat list, which was one of our unfortunate DPS. He proceeded to walk through the raid on top, one shotting each person on his threat list in turn. By the time taunt had come off of CD, Kalecgos had finished his romp through a good portion of our raid, and it was a wipe.
This is why I now spec imp. taunt for this one fight. In the case of a taunt resist, I can at least chain mocking blow and challenging shout and have taunt back off of CD JUST in time to prevent a raid wipe. Unfortunately our pally tank doesn’t have this luxury. If his taunt resists he’s just screwed.
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Rochelle reply on August 4, 2008 9:37 am:
That makes sense. When blizzard changed taunt to function off of melee hit rating, it was a great start, especially because a lo of the BT/Hyjal gear had hit on it. But the 2.4 badge gear and Sunwell gear all has expertise on it and hardly any hit rating. Combine that with the fact that even though melee hit rating affects taunt, it still has the base resist of a spell - 17%. Now that me and my healers are outgearing Kalecgos, I have been seriously considering wearing 4 peices of T3 just minimize those frustrating taunt resists.
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August 4th, 2008 at 6:45 am
My best (but not really my first) noob moment….
My first time tanking S. Lab I charged the first mob…. It did not turn out well. The hunter that put the group together asked me if I had ever tanked before. That got me mad so I told her that it was my first time in that particular zone, but yes, I have tanked many times before. She said if we wiped again she would kick me, I told her “bite me” and dropped group right then.
I assume that a pug will kill me at least 3 times per dungeon run.
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August 4th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Vene, can you PLEASE normalize your audio? If you have someone engineering it, they should know what this is… this way we wont have to jocky with the volume controlls when you talk soft and then brace for the loud pards
Sorry It is the radio background popping up in me =p
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August 8th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
lawl man so true
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September 22nd, 2008 at 9:49 am
So I had to share my story of woe and frustration with you all. I feel like this is a Tankaholics Anonymous meeting. Anyways.
I was waiting around in Shat for something to do on Saturday. See that a Gruul’s pug needed an Off-tank, and they wanted a warrior. So I send the guy a tell. He asks “Are you geared?” I respond “15.7k health un and 18.6 armor un.” I get an invite.
I fly to Gruuls, waiting outside for the raid to start. In raid, some healer asks me “Vorp what is your defense rating?” I respond with”…” He replies “Ok, just checking.” I respond with, and apparently this was my downfall, “My def is 500 + resil.” So I see the raid leader come up near me and I am his target of target. Someone in raid says “PvP gear sucks for tanking newb.” Then I’m booted from the raid.
I send the raid leader a tell asking him why I was booted. “PvP gear sucks for raiding.” I explain to him that I have 3 pieces of PvP gear, and dps pants from ZA (the skullshatter boots because I have yet to see Jungle Stompers drop and I like the threat). I use the Merciless Gladiators Shield, the s2 throwing weapon, and s4 gloves.
I told my guild about it and they all laughed. They’ve seen me tank Gruul, Mag, Lurker, Hydross, and other various bosses that we’ve seen. Sure I’m not in a high power raiding guild, but I’m the MT and damn proud of it.
Anyways, I was really upset by it. I know I shouldn’t be, but I was. I know this is about needy, but it would be cool for people who I respect a great deal for their skill and knowledge to take a brief look at my armory and reassure me. Low self esteem and all that lol.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodhoof&n=Vorp
Or….do I suck?
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Veneretio reply on September 22, 2008 10:17 am:
Your gear is great. Don’t sweat it man. It happens to the best of us.
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January 23rd, 2009 at 7:51 am
The Pizza is a LIE ! !
(guess what you forgot on this podcast)
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