Loading ...The Progression of Weapons
From Start to Finish… here… we… go…
- Grom’tor’s Charge
- Inuuro’s Blade
- The Sun Eater
- King’s Defender
- Akil’zon’s Talonblade
- Mallet of the Tides
- Cleaver of the Unforgiving
- The Brutalizer
- Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade
Quest
Shattered Sun Offensive Revered
Last Boss ~ Heroic Mechanar
Other similar options:
Fireguard - Blacksmithing
Warbringer - Thrallmar Exalted
Honor’s Call - Honor Hold Exalted
Chest Event ~ Karazhan
Other similar options:
Blazeguard - Blacksmithing
Quickening Blade of the Prince - Last Boss ~ Heroic Magister’s Terrace
Eagle Boss ~ Zul’Aman
Lurker Below ~ Serpentshrine Cavern
Other similar options:
Blazefury - Blacksmithing
Zul’jin ~ Zul’Aman
Other similar options:
Blade of Savagery - Mother Shahraz ~ Black Temple
Supremus ~ Black Temple
Other similar options:
The Unbreakable Will - Anetheron ~ Mount Hyjal
Kalecgos ~ Sunwell Plateau
Additional Notes
The Sun Eater is the best avoidance weapon in the game which means that it’s worth holding onto until you can pick up The Unbreakable Will. (the best overall survivability weapon in the game) The Human and Orc Racial is a great way to break the tie between two similar items and in most cases makes that item equivalent to the weapon in the next tier. Blade of Savagery is an excellent threat weapon, but it’s still best left to Rogues first even if you have a lesser tanking weapon. The Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade is better than The Brutalizer even if you are an orc.
As to weapon enchants, Mongoose should always go on The Unbreakable Will or The Sun Eater, but either Mongoose or Executioner is perfectly acceptable for the rest. No other weapon enchants are worth using.
Finally, I have intentionally not listed any slow weapons. Slow weapons are only valuable for Devastate spam situations not for actual tanking. Determining what is your best Devastate weapon is easy, it’s just the one with the highest top end DPS.
August 13th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Looking to pick up a main-hand warglaive (lol - just kidding)
good article! The unbreakable will is simply amazing but the sword off kalecgos is just vanilla! Just wish it would drop and we don’t get the legplates of the holy juggernaut again
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August 13th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
i use the new weapon chain on my avoidance weapons, just as a cheap alt while i save for exicutioner for my blazegaurd (have mongoose on blazefury already)
not everyone has a guild that will Give the tanks voids for enchants
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Namthe reply on August 14, 2008 12:12 am:
Perhaps not. But by the time you’re midway through SSC / TK, your bank tabs will be drowning in the things.
If your guild leadership aren’t holding onto void crystals. what are they doing with them?
(We also disenchant all trash drops and guild bank them too).
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Sanelora reply on August 18, 2008 12:15 am:
Wow! thats a good idea. the adamantite weapon chain provides some parry rating :O
i completely forgot!
for avoidance, i think that mongoose is better but for those static junkies, it may be worth looking into. that or agi
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August 13th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
I think I see how you think here but have to disagree on two parts, unless I’m missing something. How is Akil’zon’s Talonblade better than King’s Defender, and Cleaver of the Unforgiving better than Mallet of the Tides? I mean, even with a +10 Hit Rating gem in the Cleaver, its still “only” 22 Hit Rating versus the 14 Expertise on the Mallet, which also has a higher top end damage.
I don’t know.. is it biased towards orcs maybe? Hmm.
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Veneretio reply on August 14, 2008 7:01 am:
The Talonblade is a sword. It’s better b/c of the massive DPS difference.
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Seph reply on August 14, 2008 8:30 am:
But what about Cleaver vs Mallet? They’re pretty similar IMO, 22 hit w/ +10 Hit gem and +1.4 DPS vs 14 Expertise, 16 Defense and +3 Stamina. Would fall pretty much on being an Orc or not, isn’t it?
I hear people saying that if you’re soft capped with Expertise, then Cleaver is better, but couldn’t decide myself =x
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admin reply on August 14, 2008 9:13 am:
The Parry offsets the Defense in terms of pure avoidance. The Hit vs Expertise can depend a lot of how much Expertise you already have. (at this point, you’re often past the dodge cap for Expertise making Hit = Expertise point for point) The DPS gain as well as the 0.1 speed increase are huge factors. The socket though is what I feel really sets them apart. The Cleaver becomes what you want it to be. Threat weapon or Survivability weapon, your call.
Nariju reply on August 16, 2008 1:15 am:
Would your opinion change if you were not hit capped?
I’ve used the KD far too long, but can’t decide to replace it…
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August 14th, 2008 at 1:20 am
I can’t wait a moment until I will get rid of a green slimey lollipop (aka Mallet of the Tides) Have seen Brutalizer dropping twice for my fellow elvish tanks, now would like to see The Unbreakable Wil.
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Vrathmat reply on August 14, 2008 6:40 am:
hehe I like my lollipop! Then again, I’ve only had it for a couple weeks after using king’s defender for like 6 months…
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Blithlyle reply on August 14, 2008 7:43 am:
haha I like my lollipop as well! Then again I got it two days ago after have the Sun Eater for 4+ months….
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onlyhuman reply on August 14, 2008 1:13 pm:
06/11/07 King’s Defender
18/02/08 Mallet of the Tides
time for a change
btw, after countless, rly countless numbers of heroMech the Sun Eater dropped for me, just 2 days after I got King’s Defender
I just don’t like how Mallet of the Tides looks like
It is Kermit’s from the Muppet Show like weapon ;P
but damn good for humans warriors too
August 14th, 2008 at 4:23 am
A weapon sometimes missed in these lists is the “Truncheon of Five Hells” from Heroic Ramparts. Quite an impressive blue item (if not the best blue tanking weapon in-game).
One thing to remember with weapons now is the racial benefit some have. This makes for instance “Cleaver of the Unforgiving” better than “Mallet of the Tides” for an Orc. I think the same goes for “The Brutalizer” vs “Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade”. The later is of course avoidance vs aggro weapon, but for an orc the stats become somewhat different:
The Brutalized
- 100.3 DPS
- 1.60 speed
- 33 stam
- 22 def. rating
- 41 exp. rating with orc ratial
Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade
- 108 DPS
- 1.50 speed
- 36 stam
- 25 haste rating
- 25 expertise rating
For an orc in the end you choose either:
8 dps increase
0.1s faster weapon
3 more stamina
25 more haste rating
or
16 expertise
—
I’m not sure how much the stats on the blade gives compared to the expertise in terms of aggro. Personally as an Orc I’ve passed on the weapon for another tank more in need of a weapon upgrade since I have the black temple axe.
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August 14th, 2008 at 7:53 am
I used Crystalline Kopesh from the Durn the Hungerer quest in Nagrand for quite a while at 70, until I was able to group up for the quest line to get Grom’tor’s Charge.
Just an addendum
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August 14th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Thunderfury is equal to which of these weapons? When can i change it?
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admin reply on August 14, 2008 9:09 am:
It’s around the same level of threat as King’s Defender, but KD’s superior survivability stats give it the nod.
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August 14th, 2008 at 8:47 am
“Finally, I have intentionally not listed any slow weapons. Slow weapons are only valuable for Devastate spam situations not for actual tanking”
I’m not so sure about that. I tank trash and 5 mans with a slow weapon, and I anticipate using a slow weapon to tank everything in WotlK until the content really starts to hit hard.
A fast weapon shines when you’re using heroic strike, but you usually aren’t getting hit hard enough in 5 mans use it very often ( In my experience this was true leveling in TBC until you started heroics ) . And if you aren’t using HS, it’s better to get as much out of devastate as you can.
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admin reply on August 14, 2008 9:04 am:
Every time I’ve used a slow weapon in heroics I find that I’ll be doing fine and then just get this huge glutton of rage that I can’t possibly dump fast enough b/c my heroic strikes take an hour to go off. The way I see it, if you have to use a slow weapon for heroics, that means you aren’t gearing for threat enough in the heroic.
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Rochelle reply on August 14, 2008 9:21 am:
You and I had this discussion once before Vene, I think the big difference between fast and slow is playstyle. If you are used to playing with a fast weapon and you try out a slow one, you are probably going to hate it at first. The problem is that you have to adjust your playstyle a bit to use a slow weapon effectively - its notably different from playing with a fast weapon.
Someone ran a simulation somewhere (probably in the bowels of Tankspot.com) and found that the mainhand warglaive was the best threat weapon in the game (prior to 2.4 at least). Slow is not necessarily bad - its not the speed that counts, its how you use it.
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admin reply on August 14, 2008 9:31 am:
Yup, we had the debate. I showed math proving my point and you stated that at your progression level you “felt” it was better. Rather than us putting two pots on our heads and going at it Simpson’s style again, any interested in the debate can check it out here:
http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/01/24/an-expert-guide-to-expertise/#comment-1027
That’s the beginning and it spans many, many pages. Happy Reading
Rochelle reply on August 14, 2008 9:47 am:
Math shmath, whoever killed a boss with numbers? The ‘feel’ is what tanking is all about
Kavtor reply on August 14, 2008 10:20 am:
Bah. I was hoping to troll the post enough to get you two to go at it again. =P
Kavtor reply on August 14, 2008 10:31 am:
“The way I see it, if you have to use a slow weapon for heroics, that means you aren’t gearing for threat enough in the heroic.”
Rochelle is right in that it’s a different style. Because I tend to tank heroics in my PVP gear while hit / expertise capped. I don’t think you can gear much better for threat than that.
A hit / expertise capped stacked BV set does pretty well too, but the difference between ilvl 159 brutal gear and most of the BV gear is pretty huge.
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August 14th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Sorry, I posted this in another are too, but I thought it was more fitting here:
I love the fact that there have been many posts where weapon’s are ranked for Tanks (Inuuro’s Blade — Sun Eater — King’s Defender, etc.)
My question is, would it be possible to rank the shields in one of the discussions (and not limit it to just the examples below)?
Currently, I have Merciless Gladiator’s Shield Wall, but I see people that have been tanking longer than me with Azure-Shield of Coldarra or Crest of the Sha’tar. Am I missing something?
Thanks in advance
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Hao reply on August 14, 2008 10:53 am:
Personally i think that the S2 shield is better in terms of stam, armor, and BV than the azure-shield. Sometimes people pick up those shields because it is readily available and easy to pickup granted you have grinded the rep. The shield of impenetrable darkness off of Nightbane is a low percentage drop and also the shield off of gruul as well so perhaps one reason is that people just aren’t getting the drop or too lazy to grind the bg honor to get the S2 shield..
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Oz reply on August 14, 2008 10:59 am:
Thanks, that makes sense. While this is off topic, which would be a better shield to have? Merciless Gladiator’s Shield Wall or the SSO rep Shield?
Thanks
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Rochelle reply on August 14, 2008 11:11 am:
If you are looking soley at Effective Health, the pvp shields are all better than the pve shields at their respective tier - i.e. the S1 shield has significantly more armor and stamina than the badge shield and the nightbane shield, the S2 shield has significantly more armor than the Gruul shield but the socket on the Gruul shield gives it slightly more stamina, the S3 shield has more stamina and AC than Kaz’rogal and the S4 shield has more stamina and AC than both the Illidan and the Felmyst shield.
I have always found it a bit strange that even though most tanks love to gear for EH in every other slot, they rarely do it with their shield.
Talisman reply on August 14, 2008 3:42 pm:
I think people tend to miss the relatively massive amount of armour on the arena shields. When I tell people I actually passed Gruul’s shield to an alt for my S2 shield they laugh at me until I tell them it has ~550 more armour. Since I’ve had ridiculously atrocious luck on raid shield drops I wish I didn’t le Suck at pvp so I could upgrade to an S3 shield (or S4 /drooool)
Djiss reply on August 14, 2008 11:05 am:
Not everyone like to pvp.
Or they never really compared their shield to the S2 shield.
Personally I used Nightbane shield for month. Not because it’s better than S2 shield but because I wasn’t interested to “farm honor”. If I do 3-4 BG in a month, it’s was a huge PvP month for me.
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Smaken reply on August 14, 2008 11:18 am:
Not to mention the nightbane shield looks awesome.
Not that I would use some gear over other gear just cause it looks awesome…..
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vorp reply on August 14, 2008 11:19 am:
I’m not sure anyone likes to pvp as a prot warrior. But when you farm Gruul for his shield and never ever ever get it, I’d rather bitch and moan and cry in pvp for a few days and have a superior shield.
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Fustigator reply on August 14, 2008 3:10 pm:
I like to pvp as a prot warrior, especially in battlegrounds. The extra stamina, armor, and resilience from the s2 shield gives me enough time to *play* before the horde stomp my face into the ground 4 on 1. I did pick it up when it was arena only but I ground the EOTS marks and honor for the season 1 shield via battlegrounds. It was neccessary to get my foot in the door for arenas.
The shield is nothing. The rest of the pvp set, now that’s worth griping about. QQ 40000 trinket.
The nice thing about the S2 is it’s so good when Akil’zon drops his shield you can afford to let the other tank have the drop and not suffer. Yay teamwork!
Talisman reply on August 14, 2008 3:53 pm:
Yeah pvp as a prot warrior is fun sometimes but often only after you’ve collected really good gear in which case it’s not so relevant to farming for an S2 shield.
But yeah it makes tanking Van a joke (provided you get heals from more than 1 elemental shaman) and ever carried a WSG/EoTS flag in BT tanking gear?
Armagon reply on August 14, 2008 4:37 pm:
Oh, I’ve been so much more PvP since I specced Prot.
PvP gear + some DPS gear + Shield, most fun I’ve ever had.
Shield Bash, Conc. Blow, Spellreflect. I prefer to annoy people over killing them
And my girlfriend pvped to rank 11 in the old system with a prot warrior. One of our best non-Druid flag carriers in WSG/base defenders in AB.
Rochelle reply on August 14, 2008 5:08 pm:
Prot pvp can be VERY frustrating, but big numbers and face smashing are only a respec away.
Doing BGs as prot does have some perks though, I always giggle when another warrior tries to hit me with an Execute and hits for less than 100 or when I can find a nice corner to stand in so the 4 rogues, 2 ferals, and 3 warriors have no choice but to attack from the front - dodge, dodge, miss, parry, block, block, parry, dodge, miss, -24 Sinister Strike Critical (800 Blocked), block, dodge, miss, etc.
The thing is, the shields are so good, it is absolutely worthwhile to make the time investment to get good at pvp so you can get your hands on the S3 and S4 versions. Druid/Warrior arena is not that difficult. Just don’t get discouraged in the beginning, everyone is terrible when the first try their hand at pvp, it takes time and practice to get good. And in my opinion, the skills you pick up from pvp will, without a doubt, make you a better tank.
Hao reply on August 14, 2008 11:36 am:
I got my S2 shield when it was still an arena item, but on a given AV weekend, you can get 10k honor points in one day. It is a bit of a grind, but worth it in my opinion.
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Djiss reply on August 15, 2008 7:04 am:
Well, I did some BG as prot and it’s was fun (prolly more fun for me than MS spec). Being Flag carrier with 18k armor/hp 29% dodge, 18% Parry and 25% block is awesome. Having a warrior crit execute for like 400 make me giggle. I’ll always remember that WSG the horde went afk in their GY cuz they couldn’t retrieve their flag. Tanking drek is cool too.
Doing dungeon is more my thing.
But with change in LK, I’m looking forward to do more PvP as prot.
Vrathmat reply on August 15, 2008 7:57 am:
If you’re lucky enough to get an opponent team that’s mostly melee, prot warriors are pretty much unstoppable flag carriers.
Standing on a flag defending in AV/AB while spamming tclap and spell reflect can also be hilarious, especially if you’ve got a healer. Can’t hurt anyone, but you can sure annoy the crap out of them. I also love to see people’s reactions/whispers when I get Van’s STA buff in AV and jump over 21k health. Everyday PvP’ers definitely aren’t used to seeing that kind of HP.
Hao reply on August 15, 2008 11:17 am:
i liked it when i get a couple of rogues on me trying to hack away when i have some avoidance gear on in wsg and one or 2 heals trailing. They come at me from behind (and don’t attack the healer), and i do a quick spin with the mouse so they aren’t behind me anymore, lol at them, pop intimidating shout and continue.
Pellaeon reply on August 16, 2008 7:41 am:
Spell Reflecting some mage’s crit is HILARIOUS!
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Valdenex reply on September 2, 2008 6:05 am:
Oh hell yeah spell reflect is hilarious! I still remember the first time a mage in AV tried to pom-pyro me and ended up killing himself! I ended up dying right after because I fell over laughing
Bihn reply on September 7, 2008 12:13 pm:
There is absolutely nothing I like more than spell reflecting in PVP.
August 14th, 2008 at 10:40 am
The Unbreakable Will droped in our first MH run. I didn’t took it and another warrior picked it for offspec (he’s dps spec). I was feeling idiot when the day after I saw it was better survival weapon than anything I had…
I still have no clue what I was thinking that night.
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August 14th, 2008 at 11:02 am
You list quickening blade of the prince as similar to king’s defender in terms of rank. Would you pass up KD to an off tank if you already had the QBotP? I’ve been using QBotP in heroics where I’m hit capped without my weapon, but I’ve been thinking that KD would be a big upgrade for raid bosses where I’m not. If it’s simply a sidegrade, than I would happily pass it to somebody else who was still stuck using a blue weapon.
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Pellaeon reply on August 16, 2008 7:44 am:
For quite a long time now I’ve had Executioner on my QBotP and Mongoose on my KD. Situational weapon selection, but in my opinion, another tank is much more likely to pick up a QBotP over a KD, so be greedy, grab it yourself first. :p
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August 14th, 2008 at 11:52 am
I have early Kara/badge gear and I’m using the Sun Eater with mongoose. I’m also a swordsmith. Assuming I can get the mats, is there any reason I can’t/shouldn’t skip up the list and make Blazefury and enchant it with mongoose or executioner?
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Veneretio reply on August 14, 2008 12:11 pm:
That is definitely what you want to do.
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Arvernien reply on August 14, 2008 1:17 pm:
Thanks! I’ll do it.
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Pellaeon reply on August 16, 2008 7:45 am:
Executioner it…. the look is amazing!
vorp reply on August 18, 2008 11:49 am:
Yeah I’ve been happily using Blazefury since the day that Vortexes were purchasable. Executioner on it, and its my threat weapon of choice. I use the Quickening Blade with Mongoose for bosses, because I have never seen King’s Defender or Sun Eater drop for me.
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August 14th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Vene finally admitted rogues have a place in raiding, that makes me weep.
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Hao reply on August 14, 2008 1:35 pm:
lol but they shouldn’t be expecting heals. =P
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August 14th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
One more weapon to put first - The Crystaline Kopesh is probably the first tanking sword you can get in Outland.
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Talisman reply on August 14, 2008 3:56 pm:
I think he’s just talking about from level 70. I mean you could start with Grunt’s Waraxe from Thrallmar rep if you really want to go back to basics.
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August 14th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
How much threat upgrade from dragonscale encrusted blade vs brutalizer for an orc? Is that haste and 8 dps increase greater than 16 expertise?
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Rochelle reply on August 14, 2008 5:12 pm:
By the time you get the Kalecgos sword, you are probably dripping in expertise already - at or near the soft cap. And even if you aren’t, once you start moving deeper in Sunwell, you will be. The lesser value of expertise means that the haste, dps increase and slightly faster speed all make the dragonscale encrusted blade notably better.
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August 15th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Well we’ve got Kalecgos and Brutalus on more or less farm yet expertise isn’t something I bathe in, especially not in my avodiance set. Going to my threat-set, sure, I’m at 45 expertise which is close to a theoretic soft-cap. But in my avoidance set I think I’m somewhere in the lines of 28 expertise or something. That’s quite a lot to compensate for. You do get something in the line of 16 expertise from the Brutalus leggings and the T6 boots off Felmyst, but untill they drop I’d probably go for the The Brutalizer.
In the end if you reach 45-ish expertise you could very likely get more out of the Dragonscale Encrusted Blade vs The Brutalizer (threat of course), but you will loose the 22 defense (again this will be a non-issue with more SWP loot).
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August 15th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Regarding shields you have:
Season 4
- 6662 Armor
- 185 Block
- 67 Stamina
Sword Breaker’s Bulwark
- 6459 Armor
- 178 Block
- 64 Stamina
- 20 defence rating
- 16 Block Rating
- 47 Block Value
So from taking the PVE shield you would have to weight
- 200 Armor
- 3 Stamina
- 7 Block
Against:
- 20 defence rating
- 16 block Rating
- 47 Block Value
Personally I think it’s very odd that the S4 has a higher item-level than the end-game PVE shield but blizzard har done stranger things before. Yet I do not see the need of grinding PVP for the above. The Resilience on the S4 shield does more or less nothing for you in SWP, yet the increase in armor is nice. Still more block value and defence is good also so yeah. Not worth grinding for in my opinion.
Looking at “earlier content” you have say:
Merciless Gladiator’s Shield Wall vs Aldori Legacy Defender.
Here you would have to choose between:
- 448 armor
- 15 block
- 29 resilience
or, going with the PVE-drop:
- 6 stamina
- 21 def
- 15 hit raitng
At this level resilience can help since you really do not need more than 490 defence entering T5 or even T6 content. Yet I wouldn’t class the difference huge enough to go grinding for the PvP shield. Hit is something you lack a lot of in lower levels and is very good to get. Sure, you can compensate this with a trinket but you have better options for your trinket at this level also.
Btw - stop-the-nub-question but is BLOCK on a shield the same thing as BLOCK VALUE. I’ve never really understood why you have two separate stats like that. If BLOCK only is the damage absorbed by a successful block yet BLOCK VALUE works as a coefficient for things like shield slam, then some PvE shield yeild better threat than their PvP equivalents. I would however say the PvP shields are well worth gridning for if you are unlucky and don’t get the PvE drops. Yet again, I find it very strange that each level of loot is higher on the PvP side compared to PvE.
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Vrathmat reply on August 15, 2008 6:25 am:
Arena? Seriously? No, thanks. If I had it my way, PvP gear would be either unusable or with stats that are totally worthless in PvE. It makes no sense for me to grind a few days in BGs and get a shield that’s better than anything before Tier5/6 content. I really hope WotLK isn’t like this.
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Vrathmat reply on August 15, 2008 6:28 am:
Wrong thread, oops. /slapself
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Cimm reply on August 15, 2008 6:45 am:
I tank Leo, Solarian, 5-mans, and some heroics in PVP/arena gear. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it “totally worthless”.
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Thugs reply on August 15, 2008 7:01 am:
If you read his reply PvP gear should be useless in PvE. As it stands today it’s not - sometimes it’s even the best pieces in game. This I agree with is wrong. I should never have to set foot in a PvP Arena or Battleground to excel at PvE. For instance blizzards has designed events that require you to have the PvP trinket unless you’re a warrior. Yet today Season 4 even has higher item level than PvE / SWP which is quite mind-boggling.
Thugs reply on August 15, 2008 7:10 am:
Too add to this subject…
1. PvE gear is more or less useless in PvP since you want resilliance there to stand a chance
2. PvP gear today is quite viable and sometimes very good in PvE.
There should in the above be an equal sign and there isn’t. You should gain the same from doing PvE for PvE as well as PvE for PvP and vice versa. There have been PvP guilds clearing BT which at the time was PvE End-game. A BT raiding PvE guild would never have a chance of getting to the “end-game” of PvP so to speak (this was probably S3 or so).
Djiss reply on August 15, 2008 7:18 am:
I saw somewhere resilience will have no effect in PvE in LK.
And I agree with you, if you can gear up to raid by AFK in dungeon and losing in arena (yes it take more time, but you don’t have to put any effort in it, just watch and don’t forget to re-queue), why dev waste time making dungeon. Or they should just remove every drop in dungeon and put every gear related to a faction. You run a dungeon 50 times, voila, you’re allowed to get a new epic. That’s how BG/Arena work so far.
Sorry… I went off-topic.
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Thugs reply on August 15, 2008 9:14 am:
Well, as for now you don’t usually grind PvP items for their resilience value unless it’s a special case such as the fire resistance tank-set for Illidan. For DPS:ers this is even a lesser drawback since they go for PvP weapons for example for there general stats and resilience for a DPS in PvP has next to zero value.
Have they perhaps upped PvP item levels to keep them on-par or above PvE items yet being able to include resilience?
I’m not sure how to sort the situation. Blizzard has turned a PvE game into a PvE/PvP game and balancing the whole shegang out isn’t easy.
Rochelle reply on August 19, 2008 8:17 am:
Comparing the Sword Breaker’s Bulwark to the S4 shield, the PVP shield is better by roughly 700 EH. You lose about 1.5% avoidance and 40 block value. Comparing the Aldori shield to the S3 shield you again see the PVP shield is better by roughly 600 EH. Again you lose about 1% avoidance and 1% hit (which is slightly less threat gen than the 40 bl value).
Sure the resilience is mostly a wasted stat (Still reduces damage from DoTs), but the armor is significantly higher on the PVP shields. It may be painful to grind out the pvp, but at least at the end of the grind you are gauranteed a shield. I killed Illidan almost a year ago, I have still never seen him drop a shield. I have seen Kaz’rogal drop only two shields in that time period. Random loot is random. Do the PVP grind and not only will the gear you acquire be superior to the PVE gear, but it is gauranteed.
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Kavtor reply on August 19, 2008 12:21 pm:
Yup. I killed everything through Illidan with the S2 shield. The bulwark drops all the time when I’m not in the raid, and I’m getting some pretty good hate on Felmyst.
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Rochelle reply on August 19, 2008 8:45 pm:
Felmyst has been good to me, giving up the shield and gloves relatively quickly so that now I sit out while the druids cross their fingers hoping for pants. Brutallus on the other hand seems to drop nothing but the spell damage mace, off-hand and the crappy tank neck.
Kavtor reply on August 19, 2008 10:27 pm:
I really can’t complain. I’m cleaning out the rest of their loot tables in an real hurry. But my terrible luck with shields is getting old.
Our shadow priests are cursing Brut for the mace, and all he’s dropping is the plate legs. gogo rng loot.
Rochelle reply on August 20, 2008 8:17 am:
ugh, we have seen so much of that mace its a little silly. I think druids are picking it up for offspec at this point since all of the priests, shadow and holy, have it and out pally tank has one as well.
But back to the point, the PVP shield are far from ideal in SW where avoidance actually matters, but depending on what you have now, the S4 shield may be a huge upgrade that is not subject to RNG (except for well-timed mace stuns of course).
Hao reply on August 19, 2008 5:40 pm:
at the pace my guild is going, BT will be impossible before wotlk is released. I’ll have to take my chances with badge, pvp and t4 gear since that is the only thing I can get. We just started gruuls runs even though they are pugs.. The dps complains that i’m not generating enough threat, but i have every piece of badge gear I can get, have KD with goose and a HR of 100 and expertise of about 40. I can grind for teh S2 shoulders, but I’m not sure what else i can do..
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August 15th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Vene: I’m going to have to start disagreeing with your mongoose on survival weapon statement.
I’ve all but given up on mongoose when executioner, to me is a far superior enchant. The slightly higher chance to dodge/crit and a negligible increase in attack speed and armor do not come close to the guaranteed threat increase that executioner provides.
I’m all for having two weapons, but I just feel that regardless of which one you are using, threat is always good. Long story short, I never use mongoose anymore (and I’m currently using Akil’zon’s talonblade).
Just my two cents.
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Entore reply on August 15, 2008 6:38 am:
I agree with this to some extent; only weapon I have Mongoose on is The Sun Eater.
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August 15th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Can anyone help me with what kind of weapon enchant i should do on Inuuro’s Blade for Threat generation..its a blue so dont want to spend lots of gold..that means mongoose and executioner is out of question..
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Thugs reply on August 15, 2008 8:06 am:
Personally I’m hesitant to enchant blue’s seeing you can get epics through either heroics or rep even before you start Karazhan.
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Alkingson reply on August 15, 2008 8:28 am:
i agree thugs..but my luck is really not supporting me i did 15 runs of heroic mech and 6 runs of kara chess but didnt get sun eater or kings defender..so i gave up for now..and get a enchant on my blue blade and leave with it for now..
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Thugs reply on August 15, 2008 9:21 am:
There are other options depending on your level of play of course:
– These are rep-based so it’s just a matter of time. –
1a) Warbringer - Thrallmar Exalted
1b) Honor’s Call - Honor Hold Exalted
— These are random and have a scaling difficulty to get –
2a) Quickening Blade of the Prince (Last Boss, Heroic Magister’s Terrace)
3a) Malett of Tides (Lurker Below, SSC)
4a) Cleaver of the Unforgiving (Last boss, ZA)
Never the less I’d opt for getting an epic main-hand before putting to much into a blue item.
Alkingson reply on August 15, 2008 10:30 am:
point taken..just wanted to know if there is any cheap good enchant..
where i dont have to put lots..because i believe in something is better than nothing..
Alkingson (Exodar)
Veneretio reply on August 15, 2008 8:15 am:
Check out this article for some choices Alkingson:
http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/07/15/deathfrost-does-not-stack/
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August 15th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Potency (+20 STR) or good old Crusader are reasonable cheap choices.
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August 15th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I currently have the suneater with mongoose and the blazeguard with executioner. Running kara weely and heroics when I can….that is it. I use the suneater on all 73 bosses otherwise I’m using the blazeguard. The Kings Defender droped for me this week and I’m not even thinking I need to enchant or use it.
I just can’t bring myself to make the Blazefury because the stats are barely better for the cost of the vortex…..then I read this article……
Should I just be buying nether vortex when I see them for cheap in trade?
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Veneretio reply on August 15, 2008 1:27 pm:
You absolutely should make the Blazefury. The DPS of a weapon is awesome for threat!
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Stormscythe reply on August 17, 2008 6:12 pm:
Yep, agree absolutely. Similar to Gravelayar I do pretty much exclusively heroics (yet to venture into Karazhan, I’m too fond of the five-man game and the short runs fit better into my timetable) and use Blazefury+Executioner.
The threat is just staggering. I’d say it’s very much worth looking out for those vortices. Think I spent about 1,250ish gold for the five on Turalyon-EU and have never looked back
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Arvernien reply on August 19, 2008 11:19 am:
A Nether Vortex is available on many servers. Expect to spend between 180 and 250 gold per vortex. On Cenarius-US they’re running about 195g.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Thanks heaps for this Vene, I currently have The Sun Eater & Quickening Blade of the Prince. Hope Mallet of the Tides drops Monday
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August 17th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Akil’zon’s Talonblade dropped for us two weeks ago in ZA and I gladly rolled “need” after the rogue in our raid scoffed at the thought of using a sword :o) Woot!
After a couple weeks of use, I’m impressed… though I’m VERY disapointed that my executioner enchant graphic doesn’t display. I guess the “stock” light purple glow trumps the HAWT executioner graphic… oh well, it’s not ALL about looks…. :o) ha ha
I still find myself using KD on bosses (I don’t have any threat problems) but I’m still a bit short on +hit…
Vene, since I’m not +hit capped, should I continue using KD on bosses? Our small guild is focusing 100% on ZA these days, last week we got Hex to 25%… this week we’ll get him down for the first time. (my armory profile is linked above.)
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Veneretio reply on August 18, 2008 6:44 am:
You say you don’t have threat problems, but you’re worried about not having enough hit rating. (a threat issue) The Talon is greater threat than KD even with the hit rating loss. That being said, if you’d like to continue using KD on bosses that hit harder b/c of the mitigation element of the weapon, I see no issue with that logic.
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Grimgorr reply on August 18, 2008 2:30 pm:
“The Talon is greater threat than KD even with the hit rating loss”
Pretty sure that answered the question I was trying to ask.
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August 17th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
IMO, the best warrior tanking weapon before WotLK is a dagger:
http://thottbot.com/i33493
95.6dps 1.80speed
+12agi
+13hit
+60sta
Solid threat generation stats (+13hit) coupled with +12agi (extra crit, more dodge, more armor) with massive amount of stam are certainly favoured by many tanks. Although many stats are unavailable, T5/T6-equivalent armor gear can easily cover its lack of defense & expertise so that it caps to at least 490 defense & 24 expertise skill (6% dodge 6% parry).
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August 18th, 2008 at 4:48 am
There is an innate threat reduction with daggers though due to normalization. Some people argue that it’s minor, but when we sit around and compare items and say one is better because it has .5% more of something, I submit that it’s hardly minor.
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August 18th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Fang of Vashj! It’s not like the rogues are going to take it or anything.
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August 18th, 2008 at 10:08 am
how well does umbral shiv (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33493) stack up against Mallet of the Tides, i have both and umbral shiv is just sitting in my bank. It has similar stats to fireguard, but with 2 slots, so it could have a TON of stam…
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August 19th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Well, I was fortunate enough to have the Sun Eater drop for me yesterday (only took about 10 runs thru Heroic Mech lol).
However, after looking at all the better weapons ahead of me, Im not as excited as I was before lol
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Arvernien reply on August 19, 2008 11:16 am:
As I learned here The Sun Eater with mongoose is a great avoidance weapon and will be useful for many fights. Aside from the King’s Defender many of the better weapons require 25 man raids, so expect to use The Sun Eater for a long time.
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Gorrack reply on August 20, 2008 2:21 pm:
I have mallet of the tides, Akilzons, and the sun eater. Sun eater has its place as an avoidance weapon and I honestly can never see replacing it in my avoidance set. It is that sexy!
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August 21st, 2008 at 6:46 am
I don’t get what I am missing about the Inuuro’s Blade is better than Grom’tor’s Charge for Orcs. Here is how it affects my stats from the Axe when I equip the sword:
Good:
DPS +4.6
Speed reduced from 1.6 to 1.4
+8 Hit rating
+1 Defense
Bad:
Crit - .61 %
Expertise -2
Armor -14
Dodge -.19%
Parry -.04%
Block -.04%
Dmg Reduction: -.05%
Arm Reduction -.03%
Can someone elaborate on this?
Thanks
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August 21st, 2008 at 11:10 am
I started off tanking Kara with the Felsteel Longblade. I was able to build threat just fine with it and better than the blue I had in my bag (was that Grom’tor’s Charge?). I think its a viable option for those that don’t want to do the runs of mech to get the Suneater while waiting for King’s Defender to drop in Kara.
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August 21st, 2008 at 4:52 pm
My progression went along the lines of KD, SE, Quickening Blade of the Price and just recently MoT.
Due to the fact that I mostly raid in Kara and ZA and that I’ve got all the new 2.4 badge gear I tend to find that threat is far more important then survivablity.
Till now I’ve been using the Quickening Blade with Executioneer for trash mobs and KD with mongoose for boss fights, but now that I’ve managed to get the mallet I use it with mongoose for all fights. Keeps things simple and saves a slot in my bag.
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August 22nd, 2008 at 7:41 am
Need a advice..currently i am using Inuuro’s Blade and yesterday i got Breeching Comet from last boss of MGT..what should i use??my defence is 510 and hp is 14200..and if you suggest to use Breeching Coment should i enchant it with Mongoose or Executioneer..
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August 26th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
When I first reached 70 I used the Apexis Cystal Mace
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32661
Arguably it’s not a “tanking weapon” because it lacks defensive stats, but it’s certainly the right speed, the right type for a human, and better DPS than Grom’tor’s Charge. It’s also by far the easiest to get, for about 100-200g the auction house.
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August 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Any weapon is tanking weapon whatever the dps is. The major contribution to threat generation is not from weapon but from shield slam, which is affected by block value. As well as hit rating & expertise & crit. Heck, I still tank ZA/SSC/BT with:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=11684
and generate around ~1k threat, twice more threat than the dpser in second list of aggro table.
Just remember this:
#1 Every tank gear is unique. If an upgrade drops, don’t vendor or de the old ones. It may have more item level but most likely it doesn’t have the stats you need. For example, Sun Eater which drops from H.Mech and has item level of 115 is THE BEST AVOIDANCE TANK WEAPON, and has the MOST AVOIDANCE than even the Sunwell/MH/BT tank weapon.
#2 The key to threat is to cap the hit & expertise. Sadly, hit & expertise cap for normal & heroic & trashes & bosses are different, and it’s TANK RESPONSIBILITY to bring alternate gears and necessary +hit food buffs for each of these cases. Here’s the list:
Level 70 mob/boss: 79 hit & 20 expertise
Level 71 mob/boss: 83 hit & 21 expertise
Level 72 mob/boss: 86 hit & 22 expertise
Level ?? raid boss: 142 hit & 25 expertise (0% dodge & 10-11% parry) / 60-65 expertise (0% dodge & 0% parry)
There’s more to it but it’s too much already.
Hope this helps.
P.S. This is intended for warriors only.
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Veneretio reply on August 29, 2008 4:18 pm:
It’s a warrior-only site, I think you’ll be okay
Also, the expertise cap is 55 Skill.
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November 24th, 2008 at 11:32 am
hi there, so woltk is here and all our gear is updated, ive just reach lvl 78 and i using the sword from wrymrest reputaion ( can’t mack link soz) . It’s loock like more than a rogue sword but i ve use yesterday in Gundrack and belive me its rock for tanking. I ma locking fro a good “new enchnat” a bit like executioner. Any advice?
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