Loading ...Rage Floating: Chain Pull like a Champ
Rage Floating is the art of going into every pull in an instance with high rage. It’s not quite chain pulling, but it’s certainly close and to an extent is associated with chain pulling. Most tanks to one degree or another do this, but you’ll know when they don’t quite get it if they’re yelling, “OMG I’m running out of Rage… I gotta pull!”
Rage Floating 101
1. Thou shall not Bloodrage in combat.
Bloodrage is for using outside of combat to prevent rage decay. Don’t use this if you are at full rage, wait until you’re down to 80 then pop it.
2. Thou shall not pull endlessly.
Rage floating is all about giving your group a great experience. It’s not about making everyone feel inadequate by running them out of mana making them unable to do anything other than wand the first half of every pull until their pot cooldown comes up. If you aren’t willing to leave combat because you’ll run out of rage that means you aren’t following rule #1.
3. Thou shall not Execute.
Rage floating is about always having tons of rage, it’s not about getting kills blows. You might as well remove Execute from your action bar, buddy. Leave DPSing to the DPSers, you’re here to tank.
4. Thou shall Taunt.
Instead of trying to maintain threat on the last mob, just wait to taunt it. Auto-attack your way to a full rage bar into the next pull. If it looks like your DPSers are in danger just Concussion Blow or Mocking Blow the mob until your taunt is up again.
5. Thou shall not wait for full mana.
You shouldn’t be starving them, but that doesn’t mean once you’re out of combat that you can’t start pulling the next group while they happily sit and drink up. You should never have to say, “I need to pull now, I’m running out of rage!!!” After all, why are you asking their permission? You’re the tank. You tank when you want to.
The Real Scoop
What Rage Floating all comes down to is awareness. It’s not challenging, but if you don’t try to do it, it’s simply not going to happen. When you do it, you’ll find that suddenly you’re generating way more threat than you used to and your runs are going way faster. Most importantly, it’s just a whole lot more fun for everyone.
August 26th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Fantastic post. This is just another thing that separates a good tank from a great tank, and it really does make a huge difference.
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August 26th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Well said. I’ve only just started getting into this technique, having already tanked countless heroics (so many that I now spend the badges on DPS gear). It does make for a more enjoyable run.
A couple of reasons I didn’t get into this earlier are that while levelling I got used to charging and the inevitable stance swap, and that I was reluctant to do what you suggest in tip #4. Obviously gear is also a factor. You can do this if your gear is good enough that you don’t need CC and your healer doesn’t use much mana, which is a point you reach, well, when you’ve tanked so many heroics that you start to spend badges on DPS gear
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August 26th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
This Rage Floating Chain Pulling depends almost entirely by your group …
“After all, why are you asking their permission? You’re the tank. You tank when you want to.”
If you can do that why not just solo instances ? Ohh, warriors are not self-healers …
Thou shall not do this unless you know the instance very well, your gear allows it and most important, your group allows and can do this … lol
Find yourself with a mage that is always at 15%-20% mana, with a shammy just turned healer, w a healer w no healer add-ons, with a hunter w/o improved trap, with a rogue in 50% greens, with a fury warrior with no hit rating, w a bunch of brb/afkers etc … and your chain pulling is screwed .
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Cleaved reply on August 27, 2008 11:58 am:
Little bit of “nay-saying” I think. You can counterpoint any idea by simply playing devil’s advocate and bringing up the most horrible of possibilities. If most of your groups are composed like the horror story you laid out, I feel for you, I do. For those of us that put together decent groups and manage them well, we can focus less on the disaster scenarios
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Machus reply on August 27, 2008 5:07 pm:
Your heroic run is screwed as well, though. Don’t go with players who fail to put in a basic effort.
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Dethtank reply on September 2, 2008 11:32 am:
Amen. You are a tank, on most servers there is a shortage of tanks. As long as the healer and any CCers have enough mana to heal and CC the pull, pull away. DPSers can drink during the start of the pull. If you aren’t running with DPSers that can play, there are normally hundreds more who can.
If you are a good tank, and your DPS knows how to control their agro using Omen, your healers will normally not use a ton of mana on the pull. Healers start burning mana when agro jumps off the tank, as long as it stays on the tank, mana consumption can be fairly minimal.
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August 26th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Without imba gear this can fasten the trivial pulls if you have FFA loot so mana users don’t have to run around looting cloth. Also your mana users have to play along and not burn themselves oom in the trivial pulls.
The limit of trivial depends on your groups average gear, how big pulls you can take with the CC and DPS available. With the imba gear, you will have the tank winning healing done and the healer beating the tank in damage done.
Rules 1, 3 and 4 are ok. Rule 5 goes “You tank when your healer (and cc if needed) are ready”. Rule 2 is what this is about, everyone playing together.
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Sygvox reply on October 2, 2008 11:34 am:
Rule 5 is still a good rule. I’m sure he wasn’t saying “You tank when no one is ready” (see rule 2), because that would be terrible tanking. He’s telling you to be aware of your group. If you’re aware, you’ll know when they’re ready sometimes before they do. On my mage I can easily start a fight at less than 5k mana on trash and never go oom. I can start a fight at 1k mana if I’m already drinking, ’cause by the time the tank establishes aggro, I have enough mana at least to pop a gem and be ready. I don’t look ready, I’m sitting down, but hey, that’s GOOD for a warrior. You can jump in and establish aggro without having to worry about me nuking skull prematurely. As long as your group is paying attention, you can eliminate a lot of wasted time by pulling when you’re ready. If your group is inattentive, they should get it after the first few pulls. If they don’t, maybe it’s time to find a new group, ’cause this one will waste a lot of time.
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August 27th, 2008 at 12:13 am
I love this post. Indeed this is content from the advanced tab of tanking.
I’d like to add to your “rules”: Though shall learn how much threat is enough.
When doing heroics now I am a bit outgeared for them, so when fighting trash, a critting shield slam and 2 or 3 devestates are usually enough to stick the target to me until it dies. This works even better with only ranged dps in my group and when the dps has salvation from a paladin.
Finding that point of balance between building just enough threat on targets and maintaining rage for the next pull is a delicate and fun dance.
Osprey
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August 27th, 2008 at 12:15 am
It`s a nice post and I`ve found I`m (according to it) doing it just right for quite some time now
One thing not mentioned here which I like to do (usually in between packs or when last mob of respective pack is on low health) is to switch to berserker stance,intercept next pack, pop bers rage.As i can take some beating and I`m usually with melee I can have a nice head start on all mobs aswell as nice rage income untill they come and dps.
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August 27th, 2008 at 1:19 am
I try to follow these guidelines as much as I can, and yet my raid is still not chain-pulling through Karazhan, which makes me want to yank my hair out. I like to take a minimal CC approach but what good does that do if your off-tank is not ready to pick up what you can’t pick up, or does not help with pulling mobs, like say in the Ballroom? I know we could move a lot faster.
The Taunt trick is pretty nice, hats off.
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Veneretio reply on August 27, 2008 7:15 am:
I think it’s time to chat with your off-tank
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Cleaved reply on August 27, 2008 12:03 pm:
Marking helps… and if your Off-Tank doesn’t know his marks… then get a new one. Most of the time and off-tank is a lesser geared, lesser experienced tank, or they’d be main-tanking. The exception being when you just have 2 well-geared tanks and SOMEONE has to be the OT (flip a friggin’ coin). I started out off-tanking and moved up to being the main tank for our guild. If your OT knows what they are doing, you do great in Raids. A raid is a composition of people working together, if one person is lame, he slows the whole herd
A lot of times an OT is a DPS class like a Drood or DPS Warrior, if thats the case and they need a little help… hey, you are the MT, right? Maybe you know enough to educate them? I hope?
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August 27th, 2008 at 2:08 am
I liked the post because I’ve been doing this for a while now to some criticism from Heroic PUGs “Dump you rage, dump your rage!!!” even though threat is no issue. I laugh at them.
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August 27th, 2008 at 5:42 am
Hmm some nice ideas Vene, makes me want to go tank a heroic right now and try them out
I usually just rely on bloodrage and sometimes I charge for pulls in heroics/kara. And I use bloodrage right after ranged pulling so I get a bit of aoe aggro from the rage gain, but I think it’s way too small amount of threat to make an actual difference.
Funnily enough I was already instinctively using your “commandments” #1 and #4 in Hyjal to conserve rage for the next wave.
Execute… well I don’t see why a tank would do that anyway… if it’s an easy trash mob it’ll die so fast after 20% that by the time you’re out of def stance you can maybe land 1 execute and all it does is burn off your remaining 10 rage
If it’s something that lives a bit longer after 20% then you’re risking losing aggro, I highly doubt the execute dmg can make up for the difference in threat modifiers between def stance and battle/zerker. (def stance and defiance are +49.5% and battle/zerker even go down to -20% threat…)
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August 27th, 2008 at 6:24 am
“wait until you’re down to 80 then pop it.”
I can count on one hand the number of time this thing happen in a 5 man. I have hard time keeping over 20 rages most of the time.
To a point I have Bloodrage macro’ed with my Shield Slam.
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Psy reply on August 29, 2008 2:12 am:
You’re probably doing something wrong gear-wise. If you’re using boss-tanking gear in a heroic, you’re WAY overgearing the place. I generally run with expertise and hit capped, 800 block value, a shield spike, and 35% block. I’m at 13k HP, but so what? I haven’t found a boss sub-T6 content that required a higher base HP than 13k, it’s WAY more than enough for heroics.
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August 27th, 2008 at 7:20 am
All solid ideas, some of which I have put into play already, and loved, especially not letting the heals/dps mana up to 100% after every darn pull. Infact, I sometimes like to OOM them, just to help them understand that it’s ok, we aren’t all gonna keel over the second it’s time to wand, while throwing in a *small* amount of excitement.
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August 27th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Thou shalt get Anger Management.
With anger management, floating rage is much easier, as your decay out of combat is so much lower (1-2/tick instead of like 10/tick).
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August 27th, 2008 at 10:29 am
@ebs2002- Its actually a loss of 2 rage per tic as opposed to 3, but I wholeheartedly agree, Anger Management is very helpful with this.
It amazes me how often some random mage/warlock/hunter feels compelled to tell me they’re oom…when I don’t want anything CCed. I promptly tell them to drink. If it keeps happening, I tell them that I really don’t care for the most part. Their mana bar is not generally my problem.
This approach actually came pretty natural to me. Most trash in 5 mans doesn’t live long enough to worry over throwing every ounce of rage into. Get a good threat lead at the beginning, coast through to the end, take steps to minimize damage taken in the process while waiting for the mobs to die (maintain shield block, shouts, and thunderclap, in order to conserve the healer’s mana), immediately move to the next pull when the mob is just about to die. I generally go about 3 pulls like this pending the difficulty lvl for the group, and as long as nothing goes horribly wrong. Then I stop and let people recuperate. There’s a few brief moments between each pull, just enough for someone to sit and drink if they absolutely need to.
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August 27th, 2008 at 10:41 am
I like the gauntlet’s that keep you in combat. They make it easy to keep things rolling quickly, and since you don’t drop combat, it’s easy to transfer rage.
Shattered halls has a good example to practice keeping people moving, but I think the twins trash is the only raid example.
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admin reply on August 28, 2008 3:36 pm:
All Hyjal trash waves can be tanked far easier by implementing Rage Floating too!
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Kavtor reply on August 28, 2008 8:14 pm:
Yeah, but it’s the start of the two waves at the orc camp where the extra rage would come in handy. Tough to spell reflect the first two waves when you’re starting dry.
I suppose we really should just chain pull right through Kaz’rogal, but his trash irritating to start dry.
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Dezdemone reply on August 29, 2008 7:06 am:
I personally suspect that the guantlet in SH is training for the one in ZA and the one in MH, the one in SH is nearly as difficult but there’s a lot less to loose if a party of 5 dies than a party of 10 or 25. I suspect we’ll see a lot more of those guantlet type encounters in Wrath (I hope)
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August 27th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I think you forgot another way to keep rage up..
Rats and the critters on the ground. Not every instance has them but a lot do. If you are at low rage blood rage, wait for decay, kill a rat and get a another bloodrage off to build up. Or just kill the little buggers to keep it high.
Pay attention to the little critters around you not everyone has them but many do.
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Chumpacabra reply on August 28, 2008 12:41 pm:
I was just going to say that I keep a 2hander around just for this purpose. Your party’s drinking, you’re low on rage because people don’t know what the term “focus-fire” means and you had to work hard keeping the mobs all on you…
Anyway, the bigger the number, the more rage you get, so throw on a 2hander and pray for a crit, which usually shoots me up to around 40 rage. Since switching weapons doesn’t cause you to lose rage like dancing, it’s great.
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Werf reply on September 5, 2008 5:38 am:
I call critters “rage cookies”
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August 27th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
“It’s not about making everyone feel inadequate by running them out of mana”
Awww…
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August 28th, 2008 at 3:33 am
if you are low on rage just tap X and sit down the mob gets an crit your rage jumps up
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August 28th, 2008 at 3:33 am
While most seem sound #1 is not something I agree with. Bloodrage use has one incredibly useful side affect. The rage you gain generates a small amount of threat on every mob who is active. This means for example that if a mage pulls a group by pyroblasting a mob, you can use bloodrage which will cause every other mob to run straight to you because you have a tiny piece of threat on them all while nobody else has any yet and then taunt the mob that got nuked. By the time they reach you you should be able to do a quick thunderclap and have reasonable aggro on them all.
You can also use this to gain initial aggro if you get an extra pack aggrod while you fight. If someone just body pulls them by accident they will move to you if you use bloodrage (though in that situation it is quite likely a healer is going to end up getting the aggro anyway but they will be closer to you at least).
In fact, I would say proper bloodrage use is one of the most neglected warrior abilities. The 20 rage is nice, but the tiny bit of aoe aggro is fantastic and you are selling the ability short if you don’t use that.
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Veneretio reply on August 28, 2008 7:02 am:
Why is your mage pulling?
I don’t think I can agree that the proper use of an ability is for situations that should rarely if ever happen.
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Irghen reply on August 28, 2008 1:24 pm:
Even if there’s noone else pulling, Shoot->Bloodrage is always a good idea to put you over a mishap heal or something like that.
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admin reply on August 28, 2008 3:34 pm:
At the beginning of an instance or after a boss kill, yes, but any other time you should be using Bloodrage to float you between pulls. Demoralizing Shout can play the role of scooping up stray mobs as you pull.
As to mishap heals, a lot of that can be prevented by ending the final mob with a Concussion Blow. It’ll often die before that wears off giving healers a chance to catch up and completely eliminating the possibility of a big heal required before the next pull.
Vrathmat reply on September 2, 2008 8:57 am:
The only thing I hate about floating on bloodrage between pulls is when I hit it and for some reason suddenly have to wait 30 seconds on something and then find myself out of rage and bloodrage on cooldown. Not a huge deal to wait, but I hate running into a pull totally rageless.
Eamo reply on August 28, 2008 2:33 pm:
If I am on a fast run with good players there is no reason not to let the mage pull. In fact it can make things go faster since it basically lets the DPS open up faster. Your other two options are:
Tank pull, wait for aggro, start nuking.
Tank pull, start nuking, taunt.
The first is a lot slower, the second is slightly slower than just letting the mage start nuking for the pull if he wants to. It is only a problem if the tank can’t handle it. Besides, players are generally much more impressed if you calmly tank a PUG even with trigger happy DPS and if you are playing with skilled players why not let them have a little fun? It might make you work a bit harder but that is what keeps you from getting rusty.
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admin reply on August 28, 2008 3:30 pm:
With that type of group, why aren’t you already pulling as the last mob dies before the mage can even start casting? It seems to me that you’re tanking the final mob too long. Once that last mob is at about half-health you should already have enough threat to either:
1. Pull the next group -or-
2. Be in position to pull the next group
In either case, the mage should not have the opportunity to pull as fast as you especially with a spell that takes 6 seconds.
Vrathmat reply on September 2, 2008 8:52 am:
Taunt only works on one mob. What happens when the mage pulls and 6 mobs come after him? Can’t use commanding shout every pull. Plus, while it seems like you’re saving time by getting a threat boost by a mage pull, you’re actually losing some time by taking longer to kill the last mob because the mage is already focusing on the pulling the next one!
Psy reply on August 29, 2008 2:18 am:
But in that situation, Vene, you’re chain pulling so there’s not an out-of-combat point to blow Bloodrage. Ultimately, the way I see it: In combat, Bloodrage generates threat. Out of combat, Bloodrage generates no threat. Why waste threat at all?
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Veneretio reply on August 29, 2008 3:50 pm:
2. Be in position to pull the next group
Machus reply on August 28, 2008 12:59 pm:
I’d really like a better ability for the purpose that you describe, a power gain or team buff that requires no rage. Consumables will do it, but an ability is always better. For that matter you are probably better off popping Last Stand or Shield Wall in that situation.
As for the mage, I’ve pulled with pyro before. It’s a 6 second cast that does hardly more damage than a fireball, but has a DoT. The mage is telling you to get on with it and put some threat on the mob while he casts his spell. DPSers can be mean
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August 28th, 2008 at 3:38 am
As an addendum. For fast runs the most important thing you can do is bind all the raid marking icons to your keyboard through the UI. I basically use the num pad keys:
1 - Skull, 2 - X, 3 - Star
4 - Circle, 5 - Triangle, 6 - Diamond
7 - Square, 8 - Remove mark
Just doing this can easily shave 10-15 seconds off of each pull and without it you will probably find a lot of your rage ticks away in the time it takes to mark.
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Djiss reply on August 28, 2008 11:19 am:
True, I saw an improvement by doing same (different keybind but w/e). And it’s also easier to mark new add or change mark on the fly instead of the usual “right-click, click raid icon, click an icon”, which require you to use your mouse for than instead or using it for something else more important.
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Velcro reply on August 28, 2008 12:49 pm:
Seems like I saw a slideshow somewhere that explained how to do this, and why it was good… Oh yeah, it was here on this site!
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admin reply on August 28, 2008 1:19 pm:
Hehe, Yup
http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/05/23/marking-targets-made-simple/
August 28th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I use this technique to drain mana from nuking mages.
It’s beyond me that I need to fight for aggro on a 2 pull then see a healer with 95% mana and that mage with 0.
By chainpulling I’m learning him to make more efficient use of his spells.
The only thing that stops me pulling is a healer low on mana. If you can make 10 minute boss-fights doing top dps you should have a real good explanation why your mana is at 0% after we pulled and killed just 2 mobs.
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August 29th, 2008 at 2:08 am
My standard laws of instancing:
Kill skull, then cross
I will not wait for full mana
Don’t waste time CCing
I generally use H Mech as my guideline for how fast a group is moving, record so far is 23 minutes from entering the instance to dropping Pathaleon.
On a side note, your #1 is horrifically wrong. Bloodrage, to be used best, should be popped the INSTANT you enter combat against a set of enemies when your rage is low. It’s free threat, why waste it out of combat?
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admin reply on August 29, 2008 6:04 am:
The whole point of the post is to never allow your rage to get low…
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August 29th, 2008 at 2:24 am
Oh, one additional note: If you are intent on speedrunning, it is NEVER a good idea to pull a second group with a ranged weapon while you are fighting the current group. Your options are to:
1) Body Pull: Conc the current target, or just taunt it, turn to the next group and run in. Mark them while you run, thunderclap or bloodrage when they hit for instant threat, and you’re good to go.
2) Intercept: Swap to Berserker stance, intercept a group, hit Whirlwind if you have the rage. Pop Berserker Rage, reenter defensive stance, and you’ll make up for the rage lost from the stance switch.
The reason you don’t want to pull with a weapon is twofold; First off, while shooting or throwing a weapon, your avoidance is zero. Second, attacks made against you while shooting/throwing extend the duration it takes to fire, so if you have 2-3 guys on you it could easily take 6-7 seconds to let fly. Together, that’s an alarming amount of damage taken unnecessarily, and remember, offtarget threat ONLY needs to beat out the healer. Making him heal you more means you have to do more threat work!
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ebs2002 reply on August 29, 2008 8:09 am:
For shooting, maybe. Throwing happens instantly, there is no cast bar and you lose no avoidance.
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Psy reply on August 29, 2008 3:41 pm:
Really? Ready, Set, Throwing weapon time
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Veneretio reply on August 29, 2008 3:53 pm:
Watch the attitude and perhaps consider that the people here who’ve been discussing tanking for the past year and a half and have played the game even longer still, may have some less than obvious insight.
PieterB reply on August 30, 2008 3:10 am:
One thing which makes a ranged pull on a second group also dangerous is healer aggro.
You will only have a little threat on first target from the shooting damage but zero on the rest of the pack. So they will go straight for your healer if he heals. Or your shadow priest or a draining lock or whoever maybe consumbed a healthstone. Even if your healer doesn’t heal you in the mean time, it’s hard to tell where the pack will be going. Probably you, but not for sure.
It’s very uncontrolled. But hey, at least you can thundclap when they’re close, it never gets resisted anyway
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August 30th, 2008 at 8:29 am
I told my Healer about this post, and he replied (esp. about 5.) “These are the kind of Tanks you let die cold heartedly and tell them ‘i was still drinking’”
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Machus reply on August 30, 2008 10:53 am:
Not really, if your healer is well enough geared that they finish the pull with 90%-100% mana, which is not unreasonable nowadays, they’ll love this style of run because they don’t have to wait for other casters such as mages.
If you see or hear the Prayer of Mending buff on you, pull.
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Veneretio reply on August 30, 2008 1:17 pm:
Well then your healer didn’t understand the post or hasn’t experienced it in action. I’ve never once had a healer do that to me whether I’ve known them for a minute or a year and I’ve played by this route, always. I think that you and your healer need to understand that #2 trumps #5. It’s about a better experience and most of the time (but not always) keeping the pace of the run going and pulling when your healer is at 80% mana rather than 100% is correct.
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Anachron reply on September 1, 2008 3:36 am:
It’s just an healer shame letting you die cause he was drinking and was not 100% mana, an healer can easily manage a pull with 60% mana with no probs at all with decent geared ppl… and there is trinkets and pots for emergency… I hate lazy healers…
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Irghen reply on September 2, 2008 3:02 pm:
I would severely recommend a change of healer if I were you.
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September 1st, 2008 at 1:00 am
I used these techniques today on two heroics - Botanica and Underbog. I monitored mana usage on the healer and dpsers for the first couple of pulls then increased the pace. I was pulling with healer mana at 85% and the dpsers were at 65%. The speed increase was worth about 30 minutes on both instances. That was an hour I was then able to spend working on other stuff.
Great suggestions and thanks!
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September 2nd, 2008 at 7:53 am
great post thanks Vene…. wouldn’t mocking blow dump your rage without tactical mastery? Conc blow is probably a great way if taunt is on cooldown. If this is about preservation of rage any stance dancing would seem counter intuitive. Also, a change of rotation may help, revenge is dirt cheap in rage and giant threat. Maybe i’ll try to leave out the devastatex2 at the last mob…ss/revenge/melee/conc blow if there is trouble.
If you have a lock in your party you could ask that he or she stick curse of recklessness on the last mob, this would boost your damage intake and give you rage for the next pull.
When I play my healing priest, the most mana efficient spell is greater heal, normally on an over geared tank, I am using a downranked spell (2). We chain pulled almost all of H-SP and I rarely had to stop for mana.
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September 4th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Since your post I’ve tried to put this to practice wherever possible and it’s leading me to re-consider my tanking weapon. When the content is not that challenging, rage generation at the start of the pull isn’t an issue, and you’re going to open with SS+TC anyway, why not tank with a 2.6 rather than a 1.5?
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Arideni reply on September 17, 2008 9:45 am:
Because the faster your weapon, the higher the amount of threat can be potentially generated by additional Heroic Strikes to burn excess rage down the road.
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September 9th, 2008 at 3:23 am
As a healer I total agree with rule 5. While pulling when healers have 0 mana is very stilly you also dont need to wait till all healers have 100% mana, Just as it the DPS job to push the tank the tank should be pushing the healers. As a druid healer I’ve done whole 5 mans with out a single mana break, some classes just dont need to stop to drink if you have a good tank.
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September 17th, 2008 at 9:43 am
So there /is/ a name for this style, =0
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September 17th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
My main is a mage and I love this kind of pulling. I hate it when the tank waits for casters to be full, because it takes too long, and the instance becomes boring. There was definitely a learning curve for me to use mana efficiently, but now it is preferred for me.
As a tank, I hate watching the red disappear while my group cries about not having a full blue bar.
And if my healer ever let my tank die because he/she wasn’t allowed to return to 100% mana…it’d be a me or them situation.
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