- Taunt has a 20 yard range
- Mocking Blow and Berserker Rage are usable in Defensive Stance
- 540 Defense is required to be Uncrittable at 80
- Block Rating isn’t useless anymore because Shield Block is on a 40/60 second cooldown
- You won’t get Crushing Blowed at level 80
- Concussion Blow does 75% of your Attack Power in Damage even if the target is immune to Stuns
- 2 Strength = 1 Block Value (used to be 20 = 1)
- Resilience still helps you become Uncrittable
- EDIT: Intervene reduces the target’s threat by 10% making it less likely to be usable on another tank.
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November 20th, 2008 at 11:07 am
I noticed and I love it.
On the subject of SBV, it is all summarized in the following phrase: Hi face, meet Mr. Shield.
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November 20th, 2008 at 11:27 am
hmmm Str to gloves or threat…. Str enchants to everything. I know this time I plan on rocking a shield spike on mah shield instead of a puny stam enchant.
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rochelle reply on November 20, 2008 12:32 pm:
Since the defense cap can be tough to hit with gear alone, the defense enchant might be a better option than a shield spike.
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Belak reply on November 21, 2008 5:39 am:
You may want to consider a Block Value enchant instead of a spike if you’re looking for damage. While a shield spike can’t crit, damage shield can, and you’re adding to your block value for offensive moves as well. Honestly, I haven’t seen anything to convince me to put a spike on my shields anymore.
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November 20th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Didn’t I hear the ratio of defense rating per defense skill increased?
Defense skill at 80 = 400 so another 140 defense skill is needed.
140 defense skill x ? ratio = ?? defense rating from gear to be uncrittable
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Orenus reply on November 20, 2008 11:54 am:
It was 2.4 def rating to 1 skill at 70. W/ rating decay, at 80 you’ll need just shy of 5 def rating to increase your def skill by 1.
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admin reply on November 20, 2008 11:54 am:
Yup, at level 70 the ratio was 2.365 Defense Rating = 1 Defense Skill. At level 80, the ratio is 4.918 Defense Rating = 1 Defense Skill. So, it takes more than twice as much Defense Rating to make up 1 Defense Skill now.
I’ll be updating my formulas page in the near future to reflect all of the changes to these ratios at level 80. Suffice to say, it’s a bit of a challenge to reach 540 Defense upon hitting 80.
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Tankette reply on November 20, 2008 12:23 pm:
So 140 x 4.918 = 689 defense rating needed from gear. I hope there are some new and bigger defense enchants.
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November 20th, 2008 at 11:53 am
I believe it’s 4.92 defense rating = 1 defense skill at 80. That will take 689 rating to reach 540.
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November 20th, 2008 at 11:58 am
~4.92 Defense rating = 1 Defense Skill at 80.
If I remember my calculations right, 667 Defense rating = 140 Defense Skill at 80. Here’s the EJ post of combat ratings at 80: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-combat_ratings_level_80_a/
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rochelle reply on November 20, 2008 12:35 pm:
OH GOD THE MATH! The formula for diminishing returns hurts my brain.
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admin reply on November 20, 2008 12:40 pm:
LOL Ya, I’m planning on doing a post on Diminishing Returns once I can figure out a way to show it without it requiring a PhD to understand.
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hao reply on November 27, 2008 1:28 pm:
lol, i looked at the equation for diminishing returns at the elitist jerks website and thought i was back in circuits class in college.
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Arvernien reply on December 8, 2008 12:49 pm:
If I understand this correctly, diminishing returns only affects you after you have reached the “cap” at 689 defense rating (540 defense skill).
Between level 70 and level 80 the defense requirement for uncrittable is consistently 140 points above the max for your level (eg at level 73 your max defense skill is 365, add 140 and you need 505 for uncrittable).
The rating to skill conversion rate changes with each level going from 2.36 at level 70 to 4.918 at level 80. I believe the rating rate changes in a linear manner. (eg, the level 73 tank needs approximately 439 defense rating to get 140 skill points and reach a total of 505 defense skill)
The short version - you need a lot of defense rating right now regardless of your level.
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November 20th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Knew it
Knew it
Knew it
Knew it
knew it
knew it
knew it
Didnt know that
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November 20th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Help me out here! What’s the new Resilience to Uncrittable conversion at level 80? I am still planning on stacking Defense, but if a good Resilience item drops and I can’t quite get to 540, I need to know what I have to be at with that resil.
Since Echoes of Doom, Crushing Blows have been no more (as long as your were the right level), and running Naxx at level 80 will be more different. Lots of non tanks out there seem to not know this still and tend to pass resilience gear off as PvP junk. I had to fight hard to convince the Loot Master to let me roll on Signet of Eternal Life http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33500 during a ZA run.
So, with that…its still okay to mix Resil and Def to hit that 5.4% crit avoidance cap, right?
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Veneretio reply on November 20, 2008 3:47 pm:
Yup, it’s still okay to mix. The new ratio in regards to uncrittable is:
82 Resilience = 123 Defense Rating = 25 Defense Skill = 1% less chance of being Crit.
So basically, Resilience Rating is exactly 1.5 times more effective to reaching uncrittable than Defense Rating. That being said, as always you do gain Avoidance and chance to Block from Defense Rating so one should try their best to acquire 540 purely rather than with a mix if they can help it.
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November 20th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Shockwave gets 75% AP as well. In fact, Shockwave is essentially just a multi-target Concussion Blow. Even on stun-immune mobs (bosses, typically) I think it’s still worth using both on cooldown. They crit for stupid amounts of damage.
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admin reply on November 20, 2008 8:59 pm:
Yup, you’re right. The reason I didn’t include it is because everyone seemed to know that whereas with Concussion Blow… people didn’t know that it did damage because in the past it did not.
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hao reply on November 27, 2008 1:29 pm:
ya.. was leveling in prot the other day when i was still 75 and was stunned when my concussion blow crit for 2k. (no pun intended of course)
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November 20th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I think I missed something… I knew block rating was good now, but i don’t know what it has to do with Shield Block being on a long cooldown?
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admin reply on November 20, 2008 8:56 pm:
Back when you could spam Shield Block, it made it so you were always blocking thus making Block Rating worthless. Now that we aren’t constantly blocking, block rating is a valuable survival stat when Shield Block is on cooldown. (which is often)
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November 20th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
So I’m confused, will 540 defense make you uncrittable or not? Had someone in my guild tell me that defense has nothing to do with it. Sigh. Where is the math (i’m guessing elitistjerks) that will show me how to get uncrittable? I want to make sure I get that minimum before worrying about block value etc on my tanking set. (my dps set I don’t care so much, i’ve got 1100 block value and i’m lovin it)
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admin reply on November 20, 2008 8:58 pm:
Hover over your Defense Tooltip. It’ll say reduces your chance to be critically hit by %. 540 Defense gives you enough reduction that you won’t get crit. Your guild member is incorrect.
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November 20th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Hey Vene - I was wondering what you think about the new weapon enchants that are available.
I just picked up http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44734 and I’m not sure what to do with it. Is Executioner still the way to go, or should I go with a strength enchant until I get a better weapon?
Thanks for these posts. Blizz misses putting a lot of this type of info in their patch notes.
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November 21st, 2008 at 2:49 am
It actually isnt hard at all to hit the def cap at lvl 80.. if your a blacksmith
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Divinojuan reply on November 21, 2008 7:49 am:
How is it that being a blacksmith makes it easy to hit the def. cap at 80? I myself am not a blacksmith but I am looking forward to seeing Titansteel Shield Wall as far as craftables for BS.
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Steele reply on November 24, 2008 8:38 am:
most of the saronite gear has about 70-80 defense on it, it will take you straight to the cap if you add a gem or two or some enchants. you can actually get high above the cap only from blue gear, my max def rating now was about 557 untill i started rebuilding down to 540. def cap is really no matter at all. however a warning about tanking heroics: bosses WILL do 6-10k melee hits on your butt, so dont even bother trying heroic bosses if your not well above 18k hp or have a really good healer. there are however a few “easy” heroics: utgard keep, nexus and stratholme can be tanked with the regular gear you get from quests and normal instances right when you hit lvl 80.
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Steele reply on November 24, 2008 9:16 am:
a word on titan shield wall… i actually now regret putting my first 3 titan steel things into that shield, i think i woulda been better off building the boots first, since 2 hours after i built that thing a blue shield dropped in nexus heroic that was as good as the tsw, if not better. im sorry i cant link it, im at work (wow-pages are blocked) and also german-speaking, so i dont know the names in english. however it has 202 block value some 7k armor, +25 block rating and some extra defense.
admin reply on November 24, 2008 10:28 am:
The blue shield you’re mentioning, I’m guessing is:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37162
…which is inferior to:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42508
So, I wouldn’t beat yourself up over it. There’s a chance with any Blacksmithing item you make that you’ll find a close, but still inferior blue shortly after hitting 80.
You could have easily made:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41387 and had this blue drop:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37135
Or you could have made:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41392 and had this blue drop:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37618
November 21st, 2008 at 5:15 am
Didn’t notice Mocking Blow change, didn’t know about Concussion Blow change (but yea, easy to guess with shockwave I think). Noticed taunt change (hell yeah) and knew rest before launch.
Now all I need is to lvl up my warrior, but that’s after my main (hunter) will get there. Tanks are needed, as always.
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November 21st, 2008 at 8:04 am
Glorious changes to say the least. I
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November 21st, 2008 at 8:12 am
Quick questions about Def at 80. I know we will need 540 def to be uncrittable, will the % stay the same though meaning do we need 5.6% or 5.4% (i forget which one it is) chance to be uncrittable at 80 or what ever lvl we are at basically?
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Veneretio reply on November 21, 2008 8:54 am:
Yup, it’s 5.6% that you need again. Basically, a mob of equal level always has a 5% chance to crit on you. Because Raid Bosses are level 83 mobs and mobs gain a 0.2% additional chance to crit for every level higher than you they are… the result is 5.6%.
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November 21st, 2008 at 9:12 am
“Mocking Blow and Berserker Rage are usable in Defensive Stance”
I missed mocking blow in def stance. That’s interesting. Especially now that it can do weapon damage +25% with a glyph. I wonder how much extra threat is attached.
And I wonder where I’m going to free up room to bind it!
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November 21st, 2008 at 9:15 am
please write an article on what enchants and or shield addons are available. Blockvalue to shield? Shieldspike? other enchants? I would think that a shieldspike would be better because your dmg shield only works when you are blocking where as shield spike works everytime your being hit? or Do I have this incorrect?
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Skill reply on November 21, 2008 9:35 am:
would it be viable to have 2 shields? 1 for trash with shield spike and 1 for bosses with Def enchant?
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admin reply on November 21, 2008 9:49 am:
Feel free to request articles via the contact form. No real reason to clutter up the posts them.
As to your assumption regarding Shield Spike, in the past it was true, Shield Spike was superior to Block Value to shield. However, now we don’t have Shield Block making us Block constantly and we also Shield Slam much more frequently thanks to Sword and Board. Thus, the answer is a little trickier to find, but all in good time.
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Ghuytar reply on November 21, 2008 9:52 am:
Shield spike only does damage when you block.
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Kavtor reply on November 21, 2008 3:52 pm:
Odds are, right now your best bet is the defense to shield enchant, to help get you crit capped.
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November 21st, 2008 at 9:16 am
meh dont wast glyphon on mocking blow imo… just use it when your taunt is down and get rdy to taunt the mob before the Mocking blow effect wears off. Chances are though you might be able to build enough threat in 6 seconds.
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Kavtor reply on November 21, 2008 3:53 pm:
It’s a minor Glyph, so I’d just be replacing Battleshout, that I don’t use in raids.
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November 21st, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Taunt is a 20 yard range now? Paladins have shield slam? Are warriors going to get the Captain America shield throw?
I’m all for encouraging players to play tanks, but this is slightly obscene. I’ve seen people tank fine now who were crap tanks before Lich King. I guess I have just lost interest in tanking. Its disheartening.
I guess my Lich King focus will be on my mage, trying to out-dps the hybrid classes.
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Kodora reply on November 23, 2008 1:37 pm:
we don’t get the bounce but we get a version of the captain america shield throw… its more like a thor weapon through though (Heroic throw, i can’t link wowhead since its down)
It does bonus threat and weapon damage, when talented it can silence too (hello caster pulls).
Even better than paladin shields imo
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Vrathmat reply on November 24, 2008 7:25 am:
I prefer “holy frisbee.”
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November 21st, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Just hoping for a verification on 540 Def…been reading that it will be hard to get too for lv 80…had a guildie tell me today that he was 522 at lv 75 so far and his gear is nothing much Blacksmith/UK/Nex/AN/Old K blues. Seems like just with leveling to 80 he will reach Def cap?
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admin reply on November 21, 2008 3:37 pm:
The Blacksmithing gear is very good for reaching the cap. Keep in mind though that as has been stated multiple times in the comments of this post… the rating changes.
At level 70: 2.365 Defense Rating = 1 Defense Skill
At level 80: 4.918 Defense Rating = 1 Defense Skill
At level 75, it’s somewhere in the middle which means that him having 522 Defense Skill at level 75 that he’ll have a lot less than that if he doesn’t change any gear until 80. Even if he does update some gear, he’ll still probably just stay about the same as he is now.
As to verification, 540 Defense is the number because at 80, it equals 5.6% crit reduction. (You can just hover over Defense in your character screen for confirmation) This percentage is found by taking the 5% crit chance a mob always has and then adding 0.2% for each level higher the mob is than you. So, since a level 83 mob is 3 levels higher than you, the percentage is 5.6%.
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Mudthehut reply on November 21, 2008 11:00 pm:
Appreciate the info…I knew there had to be something to bridge the gap between what I was reading here about the Def cap @ 80 and what I was seeing at 75. Was unaware of the sliding scale as had only approached the cap previously as a lv 70 Warrior with very static numbers.
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November 24th, 2008 at 1:12 am
From what I can tell, the crit cap is really easy to get. The new blue gear alone can set you well past 689 def rating w/ the proper enchants.
When I first hit 80, I thought it might be difficult but now I’m well past that cap and I’m back to stacking stam/dodge since threat is completely a non-issue since I almost double any non-tank’s tps w/o trying.
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November 24th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Btw vene, haven’t you hit 80 yet? I did about 2 days ago and have been spamming heroics like a pro. Might I suggest you make a pre-naxx gearing guide. I know my guild tried getting me to tank 10-man Naxx the day after I dinged 80. All I can say is that it wasn’t very successful so I convinced em to give me a couple days to get some Heroic gear. Point is….I think it’d be uber helpful if you made a list of items tanks should get from heroics so other tanks will know what places they should be going to most often for gear.
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Starbuck reply on November 24, 2008 3:20 am:
Check Polar’s list, I dont know how good it is but I do know that is Pre-Kara list was amazing.
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/40966-polar-s-easy-pre-naxx-tank-gear-list.html
*$
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November 24th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Technically, resilience not changing can’t be a change you missed. Rather something unexpected that stayed the same
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November 24th, 2008 at 7:06 am
I levelled to 80 as fury and havent respecced yet, i’m currretnly getting just shy of 3k hits on Heroic Throw crits in my lvl 70 gear, I would Imagine a tank geared out in Lv 80 gear would probably manage the same so would it be worth adding it to a boss rotation as it costs no rage and does nice damage ?
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November 25th, 2008 at 9:22 am
So would a mix of PVP and tanking gear be a decent start for heroics to obtain uncrittable status since it seems someone difficult to hit the defense cap.
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admin reply on November 25, 2008 10:14 am:
Yup, you can do that although I’d limit the number of PvP pieces you use to a minimum. Certainly if your choices are between being crittable and being uncrittable when you start heroics, choose the latter.
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rochelle reply on November 25, 2008 1:33 pm:
Keep in mind if you are just looking to do heroics, you only need 535 defense, not 540 because the bosses are level 82, not 83.
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November 25th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Updated the Post to include that Intervene reduces the threat of the target by 10% as this is something I’m noticing the community may have missed too.
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Karamon reply on November 25, 2008 11:30 am:
where is the huge change? Shield Wall 5mins, is like a cheat guys and a life saver
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Belak reply on November 26, 2008 8:00 am:
Just a reminder to folks that while you won’t use Intervene on other tanks as much now, in some situations it is a FANTASTIC new tool for us. On fights where a boss is untauntable but you need to rotate tanks (Bloodboil, for example), an Intervene or two onto the current tank can force the change.
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November 28th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Do not write off Intervening on tanks quite yet. Current tank threat is so high that even with a 10-20% reduction, the raid will still not catch up. Vigilance is routinely used in our raids on the MT just for the damage reduction, and we are still several orders of magnitude above the next highest dps.
Granted I may not have completed the raid content quite yet. However, I have seen most, and the 10% threat loss has not been even a remote issue in the 5/10/25 mans I have had the luxury to run.
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December 10th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
I have got crit with 541, it seems that the game round up the value of you def skill so if you have 539.3 you’ll see 540, so i’ll be safe with 541 =)
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admin reply on December 11, 2008 7:59 am:
There’s plenty of reasons to explain why you got crit, you could have been sitting, you could have been facing the Fire Revenants in Halls of Stone (they afterburn giving them 50% more crit), and many other explanations. Regardless, if you’re at 540 Defense, you’re at the crit cap.
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