Loading ...The Golden rule of Specing
Spec for Progression.
How do I do that?
- Don’t spec for trash.
- Don’t spec for 5-mans.
- Don’t spec for farming.
- Spec for Raids.
Why?
Trash, 5-mans, farming does not matter. You could do it with a 0/0/0 spec and do it pretty close to as effective as you would with your “leet” trash/5-man/farming spec. You spec to raid. You spec to aid in killing the next boss. If you’re done the game, you spec to aid in killing the hardest boss that you’ve got left that you’re just killing every week. (At the moment, this would be Sartharion+3 or Malygos)
But, I don’t raid…
Maybe, you don’t plan on raiding right now. Maybe, you do, but you’re not there yet. Either way, you’re better off getting used to a raid spec now rather than later. Above all if you must experiment, try what’s been proven then try your own homebrew.
p.s. Yes, this applies to Glyphs too.
December 30th, 2008 at 3:07 am
i am mitigate with 2 spe actually the 5/8/58 i use, and the 5/13/53 (improve demo shout) but ive notice boss in woltk die too fast -_- so no really use of imp demo shout
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December 30th, 2008 at 8:32 am
And spec for raiding is?
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admin reply on December 30, 2008 1:39 pm:
http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/12/26/a-guide-to-specs-and-experimentation/
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December 30th, 2008 at 8:43 am
I spec to pvp or to raid. wtb dual spec system so I don’t have to pay the fee.
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December 30th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Balderdash.
“Trash, 5-mans, farming does not matter” is simply a silly statement if what you are doing in the game is trash, 5-mans and farming. You could do it in a 0/0/0 spec, of course… but the other 4 people you are with darned well should blacklist you and make sure no raiding guild worth their salt would touch you with a 10 foot pole.
What we do in our 5-mans (especially) is we advertise what we are, who we are. You never know who in this odd pick-up group will end up being the person that says to someone else “I saw this amazingly good tank the other day, we should ask him!” (or “horribly stupid tank” if you make the wrong impression). Bring your A-game! You expect that from the rest of your team, don’t you?
What would you think of a hunter that brings a new pet with him to level it up in your heroic run? Or the druid that shows up to heal in feral spec?
Keeping your raid spec with you as you do other content isn’t crazy, of course, it’s probably perfectly fine. But speccing for content you are not planning on doing for months while disdaining speccing for content you actually are seems bizarre.
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James V reply on December 30, 2008 9:22 am:
I agree that it sounds a little harsh. I’ve played for a long time now and raiding has never appealed to me, and I’ve never done it as a result, but I love tanking for 5-mans. Raid and 5-man specs are different, and aren’t they different enough that some should consider this depending on what they want from the game at the time?
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admin reply on December 30, 2008 1:38 pm:
I would contend that most “5-man” specs are simply inferior to raid specs even for 5-mans. I am certainly open to an example of a 5-man spec that differs from a raid spec though.
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Clyde reply on January 2, 2009 9:57 pm:
Actually, that’s a fair question… is there any difference between a raid spec and an instance spec anymore?
Desmurick reply on December 30, 2008 12:23 pm:
I agree with what your saying in that you should always bring your A game to the content at hand. But, I think what Vene is saying is that a raid spec will work just fine in heroics; a heroic/5man spec, on the other hand, won’t necessarily work well in a raid. If you’re doing progression raiding every little bit counts and, as such, you need to be speced the best you possibly can. Heroics, however, while possing their own sets of challenges, aren’t really set up so that you’ll struggle if you’re in a raid spec. Blizzard has said its goal is to have current heroics and 5 mans be such that you can tank them well enough while speced Arms, for example. But, you certainly couldn’t do that in a raid. I do agree, though, that bringing your A game is certainly the best way to be as a tank. But, lets be honest, are you really going to respeec to a “5 man spec” so you can tank for some random pug after you just got doing running a heroic raid? No. The reason being, its just not worth it and you can do just fine in your raid spec. So if raid spec works just fine for heroics, but heroic spec doesnt work just fine for raids, why not always be raid specced?
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December 30th, 2008 at 9:54 am
All of those things are important, and there are different specs for differnt purposes. An off tank may spec for a bit more dps since he will be tanking mostly trash. It is all situational.
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December 30th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Hmmmm I’m only doing heroics right now and specced 13/3/55. I am very happy with the results and the cleave glyph. I am actually considering giving an improved cleave build a try as cleave is #2 on my damage meter (yes its not about damage and yes you have it blocked out as a talent not to take but it is about holding lots of mobs!). Once my guild gets up to raiding then I’ll consider a Raid Spec another go.
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veneretio reply on December 30, 2008 1:18 pm:
13 points in Fury tips me off that you’ve got Impale and don’t have Deep Wounds, you’re simply missing out on the best reason to go that deep in the Fury tree by not taking Deep Wounds. As to Improved Cleave, yes, it’s definitely blocked for a reason. By taking it you’re definitely going the “cool” route rather than the practical one.
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Scrubbins reply on January 1, 2009 11:24 am:
Although what you meant was correct, it threw me off a bit when you said Deep Wounds was in Fury, when it is actually in Arms. Clarification here, for those who glance at these pages between trash pulls like me!
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December 30th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Technically isn’t shockwave talenting for trash? Wouldn’t 1 more point in cruelty (assuming a standard deep wounds spec) be better off for bosses.
I do agree up to a point there are certain talents (”the core” and I would argue deep wounds) and glyphs (Revenge and shield block, I’m not convinced of heroic strike) that are vital to raiding. There are other talents such as shockwave and glyph of cleaving that offer incredible gains vs trash at only a marginal cost (if any) to raiding. Couldn’t blame any tank that picked up some trash abilites especially if that is where he is in the game.
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admin reply on December 30, 2008 2:43 pm:
I agree that Blocking and Revenge are the 2 must-have Glyphs and third can be pretty much anything you can justify based on the content you’re doing.
As to why Shockwave is part of the “Core”, well… I suppose since I’ve got time on my hands sitting at home atm. It’s probably best I just write another post
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December 30th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
For me the general golden rule has always been: Spec for whatever is the hardest or most critical thing you’re currently doing. Spec for those moments where your performance matters the most.
That being said, I think that the newly evolved “cookie cutter” tank spec with Deep Wounds isn’t exactly a strict “raid spec”. For those bosses with enrage timers and high tps requirement it is a raid spec, but for others it’s not because you have to consider that it is missing a bit of survivability (no matter how small that lack is, in principle you’re missing it).
Also, apart from potentially taking improved Cleave, I don’t see how you would even make a particular “5man spec” or “trash spec” that would be much better than the 15/5/51. It already has damage output, it already has aoe. OK you could opt for some “utility” talents like disarm, safeguard and stuff like that but I find I’m not even using those skills in 5mans anyway.
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December 30th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
well used to i’d say specing for trash meant better aoe talents, but since in raid theres alot of aoe tanking as well now, even with several bosses, i agree with the admins above statement, whats diffrent about them? 5 and raid spec are the same thing now, unless you just want more dps than survivability, and thus go DW all the way.
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MadTanker reply on December 30, 2008 3:50 pm:
EDIT:
Since im sure someone will snap at me for it lol, let me clarafy, not MORE dps than survivability, but giving up a little survability for extra dps lmao.
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December 31st, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Why don’t you spec to be effective in the moment?
If you’re MTing today, you spec to MT. If you’re OTing, you spec to DPS but survive when necessary.
And when you’re clearing everything solidly (i.e now, hopefully) you spec to kill trash. I’m sorry but it’s true, you spec to kill trash. Naxxramas has 15 bosses, assuming you take 5 minutes a boss, you’re looking at 75 minutes of boss fights. At that speed, I’d expect roughly 165 minutes (2hr45) of trash. Assuming that you will still be capable of defeating all content, it is in your best interest to make trash clearing go faster so as to decrease necessary raid time per week.
It’s not like this game is hard. A few achievements yes, but not the majority of raid content.
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January 5th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
5 man and raiding should be the same spec. I tried to tanking as arms spec, and yes you can do it if your DPS watch the agro table. But if I was tanking for my son (warlock), I better be spec’d as a tank.
If your group is having problems clearing trash in Naxx, your not ready for the bosses in Naxx. So stay spec’d as a Tank.
Also I use my tank/raiding spec to quest. I have no problems. Yea its a little easier questing as Arms or Furry spec. But hey we are TANKS!!!
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January 6th, 2009 at 8:11 am
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=350200002200000000000000000000300000000000000000000000000053351225000012521330113321
Current build… I Don’t know why but I just can’t give up the 5/5 Shield specializtion. Hell it took all I had to give up improved spell reflect, nothing like seeing no damage done by a bosses Shadow bolt volley.
One thing I tried was giving up vigilance just to fill in deep wounds. Had no problems but got tired of telling people I didn’t have vigilance.
But as it sits now I guess I just think to defensive.
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admin reply on January 6, 2009 9:34 am:
That’s a pretty nice spec. Very good use of the “Core”
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January 8th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Going to test drive
[url]http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LAb00fZhZVItrg0zidczsGo[/url]
as my Deep Wounds spec. Can’t seem to give up 5/5 Shield Spec or Imp Spell reflect atm, but being in the MT spot for bosses I found giving up Focused Rage pretty easy.
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admin reply on January 9, 2009 2:19 pm:
No need to do any funny square brackets, it’ll just create the link automatically without them.
As to your spec, let me know how it goes. I think you’re going to miss Focused Rage, a lot, but only a bit of testing will tell.
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Ridlyblade reply on January 9, 2009 2:30 pm:
I actually haven’t had focused rage at all since they put out new talent trees.
The only time i semi wished I had it was 3 manning heroic BM (yes heroic BM) with an aggro hungry lock and mage.
Other than getting used to having to rend and look for that debuff, it served me well MTing archavon (although an overall dps check on the spec is useless as MT on that fight).
Hoping I get around to doing a 10 man naxx for badges this week, I’ll reactivate my WWS account and turn the mods back on to break it down.
And as far as soloing, I still kill things fast enough to not really notice any overall change in limited rage situations.
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Ridlyblade reply on January 11, 2009 9:51 pm:
Not sure if it’s been mentioned anywhere by Cider, Satrina or anybody else, BUT
Damage Shield crits proc Deep Wounds
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Veneretio reply on January 11, 2009 10:50 pm:
Yup, it has and yes, it’s amazing.
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Ridlyblade reply on January 14, 2009 2:47 pm:
So last night in 25 man naxx, I was forced to soak hatefuls on patch (I was the 2nd highest HP behind our bear >
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Ridlyblade reply on January 14, 2009 2:48 pm:
this got cut off…
tl;dr
didn’t get to tank patch, failed the jump in identity crisis with another NE warrior on thaddius, so i’ll see next week
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January 9th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
In the current state of the game, you should spec to maximize your DPS over the course of an entire raid while not dying. Period.
Right now, that’s the cookie-cutter 15/5/51 spec regardless of trash or boss. We’ll see what transpires after the deep wounds nerf, but we can’t really speculate at this point. (As prot, we will be getting compensation somewhere.)
Swapping gear is where you will see the most benefit in boss dps vs. trash dps.
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February 19th, 2009 at 4:06 am
when i spec, i try and fulfill a few areas: is this spec good for improving avoidance/mitigation? does this spec help me generate more threat? does this spec help me tank like a proper tank should? i answered all 3 questions with a big “Yes” in a spec i tested out: 15/5/51.
ARMS TREE:
Tier 1: Improved Heroic Strike (3/3) - Reduces the rage cost of your Heroic Strike by 3 rage points.
Deflection (5/5) - Increases your chance to parry by 5%
Tier 2: Improved Charge (2/2) - Increases the amount of rage generated by your charge ability by 10 rage points.
Tier 3: Deep Wounds (2/2) - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your abilities by 20% —-> leads to Impale (3/3) - Your critical strikes cause the opponent to bleed, causing your 48% of your melee weapon’s average damage over 6 seconds.
FURY TREE:
Tier 1: Armored to the Teeth (3/3) - Increases your attack power by 3 per 180 armor value you have.
Cruelty (2/5) - Increases your chance to get a critical strike chance by 2%
PROTECTION TREE:
Tier 1:Shield Specialization (2/5) - Increases your chance to block by 2% and has a 40% chance to generate 2 rage when you block an attack.
Improved Thunder Clap (3/3) - Reduces the rage cost of Thunder Clap by 4 rage points, increases the damage done by 30% and increases the slowing effect by 10%
Tier 2:Incite (3/3) - Increases the critical strike chance of your Heroic Strike, Cleave, and Thunder Clap ability by 15%.
Anticipation (5/5) - Increases your dodge chance by 5%
Tier 3: Last Stand (1/1) - When activated, this ability temporarily grants you 30% of your maximum health for 20 seconds.
Improved Revenge (2/2) - Increases the damage done by your Revenge ability by 20% and has a 50% chance to stun the target for 3 seconds.
Shield Mastery (2/2) - Increases your Shield Block Value by 30% and reduces the cooldown of your Shield Block ability by 20 seconds.
Toughness (5/5) - Increases the armor contributed by your items by 10% and reduces the duration of movement impairing effects by 30%
Tier 4: Nada.
Tier 5: Concussion Blow (1/1) - Stuns the target for 5 seconds and deals **** (based on your attack power)
Gag Order (2/2) - Your Shield Bash and Heroic Throw ability has a 100% chance to silence the target for 3 seconds and increases the damage done by your Shield Slam ability by 10%
Tier 6: One-Handed Weapon Specialization (5/5) - Increases the damage you do when a one-handed weapon is equipped by 10%
Tier 7: Improved Defensive Stance (2/2) - When in Defensive Stance, all spell damage taken is reduced by 6% and when you Block, Dodge or Parry, you will enrage, increasing your damage done by 10% for 12 seconds.
Vigilance (1/1, requires Concussion Blow) - Focus your protective gaze on a friendly party or raid target, reducing the damage they take by 3% and transferring 10% of their threat they deal to you. Whenever they are hit, your taunt will refresh. The effect lasts 30 minutes, can only be on one target at a time.
Focused Rage (3/3) - Reduces the rage cost of your offensive abilities by 3.
Tier 8: Vitality (3/3) - Increases your total strength and stamina by 6% and increases your expertise by 6.
Tier 9: Warbringer (1/1) - Your charge ability is now useable in combat and in any stance. In addition, your charge, intercept, and intervene abilities will now remove any movement impairing effects.
Devastate (1/1) - Sunder the targets armor, causing the Sunder Armor effect. In addition, causes 50% of weapon damage plus 24 for each application of Sunder Armor on the target. The effect can stack up to 5 times.
Critical Block (3/3) - Your succesful blocks have a 30% chance to block double the normal amount of damage. In addition, increases the critical strike chance of your Shield Slam ability by 15%.
Tier 10: Sword and Board (3/3, requires Devastate) - Increases the critical strike chance of your Devastate ability by 15%. In addition, when your Devastate and Revenge ability do damage it has a 30% to refresh the cooldown of your Shield Slam ability and reduce the rage cost by 100% for 5 seconds.
Damage Shield (2/2) - Whenever you take damage from or block a melee attack, you cause damage equal to 20% of your shield block value.
Tier 11: Shockwave (1/1) - Sends a wave of force in front of the warrior, doing **** (based on attack power), and stuns enemy targets within 10 yards in a frontal cone for 4 seconds.
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February 19th, 2009 at 4:36 am
for healers or dpsers wandering across this site and are curious about tanking, go for it! it requires skill and yes there will be some down points where tanks are most likely blamed for wipes apart from obvious other reasons. tanking is just one hell of a fun job. been doing it for a little over 4 years and am loving every bit of it. it fills you up with pride as well. if u are skilled at it, how often could ppl say “i did heroic shattered halls today for the trial of naaru achievement … with a warrior tank!” trust me (these are my views), tanking is one of the most rewarding jobs you will ever play.
peace out, again
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