Loading ...Back to Basics: Clustering
The fundamental concept behind Multi-target and AOE tanking is creating clusters. Clustering is the act of taking a pack of mobs and grouping them together. Given enough practice this is something we all end up doing one way or another and we all end up taking for granted.
Starting your Cluster
Clustering starts before you’ve actually charged or shot a mob. The most important aspect of it is identifying the types of mobs you’re dealing with and while there are some variations when it all comes down to it, there’s just 2 types.
- Movable Mobs
- Stationary Mobs
Movable Mobs are your standard melee style mob that’ll follow you wherever you’ll take them as long as you’ve got threat on them. Stationary Mobs are your ranged DPSers either of the caster or hunter-style (we’ll call them shooter) varieties.
Dealing with Movable Mobs
Generally speaking, the easiest pull you’ll deal with is a pack of Movable mobs. Once you engage one of them, they’ll all naturally go after you. Now whether you wait for them or not depends largely on 2 factors:
- How spread out are they?
- Will other packs patrol into them?
If the pack is very tightly knit then it’s pretty safe to charge in there and start tanking the pack. Even if patrols are a risk, a tight knit pack can be safely backed up after a Thunder Clap has established aggro on all of them. (Note: Shockwave will stun all of the mobs you’re tanking. Stunned mobs don’t move.)
If the pack is spread out and there’s no risk of a patrol running into your group then you’ll first want to engage the closest mob and put some quick threat on it then second move towards a natural centering point past the mob you engaged. The Centering Point is the point in the middle of a group of spread out mobs in which the distance to reach you is equal for all mobs. In other words, we want all of the mobs that are spread out to reach you at the same time as this will be the fastest way to cluster them.
If the pack is spread out and there is a risk of a patrol coming then you’ll want to shoot the pack and wait for the first mob to engage you and then move to the centering point to cluster the pack up quickly. A good way to reduce the likelihood of healing aggro is to Concussion Blow the first mob that reaches you then move to the centering point. When the mobs reach you, Thunder Clap is once again your best bet to establish some quick threat on all of them.
Dealing with Stationary Mobs
Clustering Stationary mobs is very similar to clustering Movable mobs as long as you can bring the fight to them and as long as there’s only one of them. Handling that is just a matter of engaging the lone Stationary mob and letting the Movable mobs come to you. But, what if…
- A patrol is going to pat into them?
- There are 2 or more of them?
If you can’t fight the Stationary mob where it’s standing then your next course of action depends on whether it’s a caster or shooter mob and whether or not you’ve speced into Gag Order. If you’ve got Gag Order and it’s a caster then the pull is handled effortlessly by using Heroic Throw on the caster mob causing it along with the rest of the pack to run towards you.
If it’s a shooter mob (silence has no affect on it) or you aren’t speced into Gag Order (you can’t silence) then you’ll have to shoot it and run backwards forcing it to move due to not being in range of you or you’ll have to Line of Sight (LOS) pull it. LOS pulling is shooting a mob and then running around a corner forcing them to follow you around that corner to get into range. This has the benefit of not forcing you to waste a lot of time back tracking and in most cases, it’ll cancel any spell being cast on you. This type of pull requires your DPSers to hold off longer until you can get the pull moved to a safer place. Suffice to say, we all know how impatient DPSers can be and as a result, the more often we can avoid this situation… the better. (which is why you really should be speced into Gag Order for this reason as well as for the huge Shield Slams it’ll produce)
When dealing with 2 or more Stationary mobs, the easiest way to cluster them is to LOS pull as simply running back isn’t likely to cluster them very much especially if they’re really far spread out to begin the pull. If LOS pulling isn’t an option, it’s time to play hard ball. It’s certainly still an option to shoot and run and we’ll have to do that if LOS pulling isn’t an option and we run the risk of a patrol hitting them. However, if patrols aren’t a risk that’s when we get to open our bag of tricks.
1 Shooter + Casters
Your goal is to bring the fight to the Shooter mob. This can be done by Heroic Throwing the caster and charging the shooter or by charging the caster and Shield Bashing them then moving to the shooter with the caster playing follow the leader on your heels. The final option is to engage the shooter and hold the caster by using Spell Reflect. This is the easiest option, but it won’t produce enough threat to allow your DPSers to AOE so either make sure they aren’t AOEing or make sure the caster is outside of the AOE pack.
2 Shooters
Probably the most frustrating scenario is dealing with 2 shooters. Shoot and run can be done, but it doesn’t really cluster anything. Which leaves us with a very slow option, but an option nonetheless. We engage one of the shooters and we slowly back them into the 2nd shooter. As long as we stay in melee range of the shooter, it’ll slow reposition itself over and over again and follow us to the other one. Whether this needs to be done or not depends largely on how hard the shooter actually hits. If it doesn’t hit very hard or is stunnable then usually it’s easiest to simply tank 1 shooter + the movable mobs and allow your DPS to nuke down the other shooter first while using any stuns available that they may have.
Handling Waves and other Events
A lot of tanks struggle for longer than they should on wave encounters like you’d see in Halls of Stone or events like running the hallway in Utgarde Pinnacle. The reason is you don’t have time to think or more to the point that you don’t take the time to think. Handling these comes down to 5 key principles:
- Identify Stationary Mobs
- Clustering
- Don’t Thunder Clap too much
- Save Shockwave
- Use Challenging Shout
The Halls of Stone wave encounter sends a group of 2 tightly knit casters at you at various times during the event. You have to bring the fight to them either by running to them or charging them. (Warbringer) The 3 melee mobs that usually precede them will follow you and you’ll create a nice cluster that you desire. This wave encounter really tests your Thunder Clap usage. You’ll find it’ll quickly turn into chaos if you blow 2 Thunder Claps and your Shockwave on the very first triple Movable mob group. This is unnecessary. A single Thunder Clap followed by tabbing between the 3 units placing Shield Slams, Revenges and Devastates will be enough threat until they’re dead. Shockwave should be saved for the situations where mobs are coming so fast that your Thunder Clap is still on cooldown or to cover up the mistakes you make. (like not tabbing to a target or Thunder Clapping too much)
The Utgarde Pinnacle hallway is a lot uglier. It frequently sends shooters at you as well as movable mobs. Educating your DPSers goes a long way to trivializing this encounter. Simply put, the shooters need to die first and should be focus fired. You’ll want to follow the same general principle as Halls of Stone in that you’ll want to Thunder Clap only a single time on a set of mobs as you’ll always need it available for the next group. Also just like Halls of Stone, Shockwave should be saved for the situations where your Thunder Clap is on cooldown and you need some fast Multi-target threat.
Challenging Shout acts as a reset, but it does not last very long at all. If it feels like Chaos is about to ensue (you know that gut feeling) then it’s time to shout. I’m not just talking about Challenging Shout either. I’m talking about dictating on Ventrilo or Teamspeak with what needs to be done. You have only 6 seconds to get your DPSers focused… act quickly.
What do I tell them!?
DPSers have 2 common tendencies that can lead to chaos:
- Switching to AOE
- Wanting to Finish off the kill
When DPSers see a lot of mobs starting to form up, they always want to start AOEing the crap out of them. In the case of Halls of Stone, once you’ve Challenging Shouted you need to tell them to Focus fire mobs with low health. In particular, if you can call out the exact name of the mob and say, “Get that down!” then that’ll go a long way towards creating order in the face of chaos. For the Utgarde Pinnacle encounter, it’s the need to finish the kill that gets them. This is because they’ll make short work of the first shooter and naturally switch to the Movable mobs. Once a new shooter has arrived, you need to keep them on task and let them know that they’ve gotta leave the mob they’re on and get on the shooters.
Wow… we take a lot for granted
Yup, we do. It’s amazing how many little choices are taking place in even the most seemingly simplistic pull. It’s why you’ll often see a dramatic difference between an experienced and an inexperienced tank in a 5-man. Those of you new to tanking reading this… if you made it this far, I commend you. It’s an overwhelming amount of information. The reality is that you’ll naturally learn a lot of the techniques layed out in this post just through practice. Hopefully by understanding all the little choices, you’ll be able to greatly speed up the process though.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
I think clustering is a lot harder in Halls of Stone than it is in the Skadi event. Having done both a number of times, rage starvation is a huge issue for the first couple of waves in Halls of Stone. The movable mobs die very easily, granting very little initial rage. In Utgarde Pinnacle, the first waves are large and you can float on a wave of rage until you have cleared to the end of the hallway. For Skadi you really just need to respond quickly and Charge/Intervene towards harpoonists and casters.
Another heroic that’s a good example for clustering mobs is The Culling of Stratholme. Several mobs (the necromancers and Crypt Fiends) will move away from the tank when they can, making clustering a bit more difficult. I have done a lot of timed runs lately, and things can get ugly if the tank doesn’t manage to cluster the wave groups neatly in order to keep up AoE threat.
Great post, as usual, and of particular interest to me, as my first love are 5-mans.
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February 27th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
I love to thunderclap early and often. My question is, do you use cleave much anymore? I usually just cycle targets and try to get off a Devastate, SS or revenge and HS’s while Clapping, Demo shout (usually once) and using shockwave as often as possible.
As far as range and casters if my charge is up I usually charge them asap again and bash recluster. The only exception is if its going to pull a boss or make things worse with some odd added agro.
Usually I mainly have problems when someone pulls when I am not rdy as having no rage at the first of the pull sucks. Hopefully challenging shout isnt on cooldown and enrage kicks in quick. Then I am fumbling for mocking blow cause I have used taunt already and it just doesnt feel pro trying to pick up 4 mobs with no rage.
VH has the one pull with 3-4 mobs that always split up unless you are up there when they spawn. If its 3 then I taunt the single and charge the 2 with a Thunderclap. If its 4 I try to HT one, taunt the other and charge the other 2. Sometimes I can get some group help but I just try to get them all together asap for a good shockwave.
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Veneretio reply on February 27, 2009 1:29 pm:
Definitely someone else pulling for you is a bad situation. I’ll often let them die to prove a point. That being said, perhaps this old post can give you some insight into avoiding that situation.
http://www.tankingtips.com/2008/08/26/rage-floating-chain-pull-like-a-champ/
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Arg reply on February 27, 2009 1:47 pm:
I actually use cleave all the time…perheps too much. But i have glyph of cleaving and it seems to work pretty good in heroix and 10men at least. I can usually squeez out ~ 1200dps even with my fail gear. However i have to admit i have problems on halls of stone. I spamm cleave there all the time(baaad habbit from fury tanking which i havent got rid of yet) and i starve a lot
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Kadomi reply on February 27, 2009 2:37 pm:
I have Glyph of Cleaving for heroics and use the golden threat rule. Threat > 40 = Cleave as often as I can.
I hate the splitting mobs in H VH with a passion. I usually pick up the 2 movable ones with a TC, then charge the caster, Demo Shout, and once the movable ones are in position I Shockwave.
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BillyWallace reply on February 27, 2009 4:52 pm:
I do this as well. The problem I’ve been having is that the dps feels that since I TC’d the first two, they must be open for all out dps. So by the time I’ve got the third that split away, I’m having to taunt or otherwise get back aggro on the other two. It’s manageable but messy, but doesn’t have to be if the dps could wait 3 additional seconds.
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Axethrower reply on March 2, 2009 5:39 pm:
Actually as far as the mobs that split in VH go, I had a friend of mine suggest that we just wait at the stairs to the entrance for them. They all run there anyway and by the time they reach it they are all clustered anyway. Works like a charm no fuss no muss.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
One thing I do when tanking a situation where adds will come, and the adds need to die first, is make a habit of marking with X my normal main target. Then when the adds come if I manage to target them I mark them with Skull, or sometimes I miss them altogether and it’s up to the DPS to take them down. But using X as the “focus fire this unless you see adds” target seems to give the DPS the right message.
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February 27th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
I like the fact that you acknowledged the 2 Shooter dilemma, Vene. This situation comes up a few times in Halls of Lightning right at the very beginning as you pull to the first boss. Those damn Shooter mobs are a royal pain. It isn’t enough that they’re SHOOTERS, so you can’t silence them or make them come to you unless you have a Death Knight in your party…but these bastards also Disengage! Even if you Charge one, he can smile at you and jump back again out of range. This is a true test for your healer, as you may have to zip around the area and hit them as you’re taking roaming damage while holding whatever is following you. Halls of Stone is my most annoying instance for those Waves…but HoL is a not-so-distant second. Pinnacle I’ve sorta gotten used to, and it’s easy for me now when I have smart DPSers with me.
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Kadarin reply on February 27, 2009 4:09 pm:
I have serious problems in that first room of HoL with all the disengage and other silliness. Does anyone have a cycle that works well in here? Maybe playing the angles and forcing them to move away into corners?
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February 27th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Thanks for the recap. I think this will help new tanks or other roles in a group relize what we have to deal with.
I agree with you on the DPS tendencies. I have even seen one more.
The “I want one all to myself” DPS’er
Sometimes the nuke casters want 1 mob all to themselves so that they don’t have to worry about the mob dying while they are charging up another 3 sec “bomb”. I think this is usually to make them look good on the charts. Oh well, if I am 2nd on aggro, I’ll back to first after they die
(JJ of course)
Thanks for all the great tips.
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February 27th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
I find that spamming demo shout can be very useful when i just care about agro, not threat, and tclap isn’t up. Not terribly useful in heroics outside of the HoS event or gathering skeles for the CoS acheive, but it is great when PLing as prot.
Also you didn’t mention anything about mobs with a higher agro radius than your charge has range, like the trash before 4h. I usually charge the closest one and try to hit a tclap on all of them, but sometimes i’ll miss one or two and those peel from healing agro before i have time to swave. But if i wait for them to come to me, especially if we’re already engaged with mobs when a second pack agros, they almost always change targets to a healer before they get to me. Wondering if anyone has insight into a perfect way to deal with these pulls.
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Kadarin reply on February 27, 2009 4:07 pm:
Do you not have warbringer? I’ve never had a problem with large aggro radii causing me issues. Also, the minor glyph if charge is handy for this.
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February 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Intervene can be a great tool for achieving an LoS pull if you can partner with someone to use it on. Depending on your group composition, Shadowpriests, Death Knights, Mages, Warlocks (with Felpuppies), or anyone with a ranged silence or spell interrupt can help cluster.
The enemy of clustering has got to be some of the new knock-back mechanics though. Every time someone casts Thunderstorm or Typhoon, god kills a kitten.
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Sephirawth reply on February 27, 2009 2:44 pm:
I have been an avid reader of this site for a while and Tarsus you have compelled me to make my first post…… I could not agree with you more. I actually think kittens and puppies die when Thunderstorm or Typhoon is cast….
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castello reply on February 27, 2009 3:42 pm:
Yes. lol. The first time I ran into the knockback noone would fess up to it. Everyone was blaming someone else, including the hunters pet!
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Kadarin reply on February 27, 2009 4:05 pm:
I agree, Typhoon is a tool of demons and devils.
Orla reply on February 28, 2009 7:12 am:
I saw a oomkin cast typhoon once, and i about had a major case of rage. it subsided when i learned he was smart enough to take the minor glyph that removed the knockback part of the spell. At least the guy had enough tank left in him he knows that pisses tanks off to no end
Tarsus reply on February 28, 2009 8:34 am:
That minor glyph is a real helper, but until dual specs go live I think we’re likely to see few people pick it up, especially if you look at what other minor glyphs are available for those classes.
That said, it does give me a chance to break out my Batman voice on Vent, which is always good for a laugh.
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BobTurkey reply on March 1, 2009 4:13 pm:
The knockback on Thunderstorm is actually pretty useful for ‘punting’ mobs that break away from the tank and charge the healer/DPS. As an Elem shaman I position myself near the healer and as soon as one gets about half way to us (or does one of those annoying charges) I punt him back near the tank and hope they can Taunt or otherwise pick him up again.
But yeah it takes some practice to be far enough away that you don’t disturb the tank’s mobs.
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February 27th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Well, I’m enlightened and also very sheepish - I’ve had Gag Order spec’d forever it seems, but I never noticed the “…and Heroic Throw abilities…” in the talent description.
o.O
/facepalm
Needless to say my cohorts will be glad to know of the “new” talent I have now.
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February 27th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
One difference between a failknight and a leet DK is the ability to deathgrip the second shooter or caster to you and then not attack it so you can easily pick it up - rather than deathgrip a melee off of you like most dk’s seem to do.
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March 1st, 2009 at 1:36 am
I don’t like to work with a centering point.
It’s not the center of the group that’s important it’s the point where your thunderclap will hit all mobs that’s important.
I almost never try to get to the center of a group but to the edge.
It depends on how they move, but if you go to a groups closest edge, and aggro them then will all start moving in to you (or someone else in your group) and will be in range for your thunderclap fast and IN FRONT OF YOU so you can use shockwave and BLOCK.
Veneritio, mentioning keeping mobs in front so you can block and don’t get hit from behind is something which really really needs to be in any multimob tanking “guide”. The damage from getting hit in the back can be overwhelming.
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Veneretio reply on March 1, 2009 2:03 pm:
You have a valid point, but realistically centering happens very fast and it’s also why I recommend Concussion Blowing the first mob you engage.
It’s Stun > Center > Cluster > Back up and you’re good. Even then though, a single mob hitting you in the back will hardly be the end of the world. Don’t get me wrong though, it’s bad practice to allow mobs to hit you in the back.
I’ll see if I can possibly word your point into this post without making an already huge amount of info even more massive. If not, I’ll look into emphasizing this in another article. Thanks for the comment
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Vivilros reply on March 2, 2009 2:38 am:
One possible technique is to center, and then take about three steps back, which puts them infront of you, unless of course they do the entire “I’m going to walk behind you lawl” thing that mobs tend to do all too often.
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Orcstar reply on March 2, 2009 5:39 am:
Well, it ofcourse depends entirely in the situation.
With a pack of the mini spiders in spider wing or even two, it doesn’t matter where they’re tickling you.
One or two of the packs in Death Knight wing, right before 4 Horsemen…….if you got a few stomping in your back they will eat you for breakfast.
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March 1st, 2009 at 2:10 am
On 2-shooter pulls (I’m thinking of a pull in Nexus with 2 horde rangers), can 1 be disarmed and forced to follow you? I guess this would only work on mobs with guns and bows but possibly not on the spear throwing vanguards in HoL.
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Veneretio reply on March 1, 2009 2:00 pm:
Disarming a ranged mob only removes it’s melee weapon, it’ll happily continue to shoot you, unfortunately.
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ElShawn reply on March 6, 2009 3:18 pm:
Just a heads up from the 3.1 PTR:
*Disarm will now disarm the enemy’s main hand AND ranged weapons
First time posting here, but I’ve read through all your articles. I love the discussions that go on in these comments, keep up the good job!
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March 1st, 2009 at 12:32 pm
This is why I created hotkeys that mark targets. Skull & X the ones that need to die right now, so there is no confusion.
I also point out that if there are 2 caster/shooter type mobs marked, I will be building aggro on the second one and all the melee mobs, so they had better get the skull dead quick, fast and in a hurry.
About the most important thing I do with a group is spam 3 macro’s I made, right when we start. It explains kill order, what I plan on doing and what I expect from them. Letting pugs know what you expect from them can go a long way towards getting them to actually do what you expect from them.
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March 1st, 2009 at 8:57 pm
In some martial arts forms a beginner is signified by a red belt on their robes. As one progresses, the belts change in color to signify their knowledge and understanding, and execution, of the skill sets studied. At the end of the ladder is the master, as most already know. The master’s belt is also red so some say, “Why does one with such a level of expertise wear a belt colored like that of a beginner? Have we not proven ourselves?”
The most basic of all techniques can triumph over the most complex. For in order to be a master one must also be a beginner. This entry made me think of that story and it is one which holds significance in my life.
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March 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 am
I think your spot on with the experienced and inexperienced comment. I’ve been using the Shield Bash silence, and drag technique since as long as I can remember (hated not being spec’d for silence during BC because of that), and before this article many new Tanks only really learn this from experience and practice. We have a new DK tank in my guild we are slowly gearing up and giving him tips like this for clustering mobs, and so forth, I will deffo be forwarding him this article. If only we had a Northrend version of Magister’s Terrace, that place was a great example of dealing with range and caster mobs, kept you on your toes.
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Tarsus reply on March 2, 2009 7:35 am:
If you ask me, the equivalent to this at the moment is The Occulus, particularly on Heroic. Lots of range casters to practice with that, unlike Nexus, don’t run to you before starting to cast.
Count me among the people who hate running Occulus, but it’s about as good as you’re going to find.
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March 2nd, 2009 at 10:47 am
Great article. Your point on experience is exactly right. Most players that aren’t complete noobs should be picking up most of this via their normal play time. That is where the experience part comes in. I think that a lot of this even comes from solo farming. Most ore veins, etc always seem to be behind a group so knowing who/what to focus on and getting the group to cluster is great info.
However, I am new to tanking and many of the finer points is where I struggle. I still think that basic experience (time in-game) will help.
I read and enjoyed “The Rotation. It’s not as Easy as you think” but I struggle with adds and knowing at what point I can focus on them and then go back to main. My biggest concern is some DPSer pulling agro and blaming the tank. I have no problem with DPSers using their tools/skills but a smart DPSer goes a long way in making for a successful run.
I might be wrong but it seems tanks spend more time reading sites like this and learning their roll as opposed to a DPSer.
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Elcommendante reply on March 3, 2009 1:34 am:
Exactly, this is the difference between the good group and a bad group.
Sometimes you just go there, tdo your job and feel like a great tank, the other day you end a run full of frustration with a lot of wipes and lots of whine-talk, doing the same things!
That’s why communication is so important, I’ve met even some good players who made silly things (like AOEing before you even reach the mob).
Sometimes you just have to write what you’re after and what are your expectations, DPSers often don’t “feel” it this way as we (tanks) do.
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Orcstar reply on March 3, 2009 6:28 am:
Well, one person knowing what to do mostly is enough to make a group succeed
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March 3rd, 2009 at 8:04 am
Half of success is gear setup (hit, expertise, str to boost SBV=Damage shield, or attack pwr= heavier TC, more crit for more deep wounds, and a slow weapon) the other half is clustering. Get them all in range of TC…cast, when they are even closer Shockwave, when it is gone shield block up, and wear mirror of truth, to make your TC more “appealing”. Deep wounds takes out loads of effort in multitanking. I use cleave (without glyph) a lot on trash.
I don’t rly need to switch targets. I have spoken to warlocks and hunters and they say they don’t need to hold back
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Axethrower reply on March 3, 2009 9:28 am:
I am just curious why a slow weapon would help you multi-mob Tank? A warrior tank thrives useing fast weapons, Paladins don’t care what speed they have so a 2.5 does them fine. Thats why the Red Sword is so good for Warriors, 1.6 speed means you can tab through and apply HS on every mob that much faster. I usually charge in on the caster or ranged mob and use concussion, orient the mobs in front of me and hit TC while tabing through and cycling Rvenge+HS, SS+HS, Dev+HS then back to skull and just tank the kill order as I usually have enough threat to hold after that.
If the DPS goes hard on me I use SW to help out but unless things have gone poorly I try not to stun my rage batteries. A slow weapon would severly hinder my multi-mob tanking as HS would be more spread out.
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Elunesbuddy reply on March 3, 2009 10:50 am:
slower weapons benefit well to Deep Wounds specs (bleeding effect ticks being calculated on weapon damage).
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athelia reply on March 3, 2009 12:37 pm:
Dont forget Devastate works off weapon dmg as well and its an instant ability. So while you wont get as many heroic strikes/cleaves they will hit much harder with a slow weapon. And devastates will hit harder and are instant. Revenge, concussionblow and shockwave still take priority however I would think a big slow beastly weapon would rock with all the changes. Also yea deap wounds going off weapon dmg.
Theorycrafters and those smarter than me still like the faster tank weapons for bosses.
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Onlyhuman reply on March 3, 2009 1:48 pm:
You have all forgotten about Cleave, it also benefits from slow weapon.
(Rank 8- A sweeping attack that does your weapon damage plus 222 to the target and his nearest ally.)
I have some stats, 90% of trash tanked in my trash gear set.
http://wowwebstats.com/1yr4ertv4pets?s=trash&a=x2ee539
(oops, I did not use cleave as much as I thought, will do better next time ;))
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Steele reply on March 11, 2009 2:19 am:
dont really see why your working towards a heart attack when you can just stand there and TC/SW/Cleave ftw,, cant wait for dual-spec… ill be the fury-specced-cleave-with-shield-monster-tank :>
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March 3rd, 2009 at 9:56 am
As a new tank just about too hit 80 I wanted to say thanks for these great posts, there is so much that I haven’t learned about tanking that people take for granted because I never tanked Molten Core or Karazhan, because my warr wasn’t ready till this XPac for raiding. Reading these blogs is an excellent substitute for frustrating and retarded pugs where I would normally be learning this shizz.
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Onlyhuman reply on March 3, 2009 1:55 pm:
I just let them die
and you need 2 sec to get some aggro.
If they don’t let me cluster mobs and get a minimal amout of initial aggro.
I have proved myself that I can get aggro back by tabing, taunting, shieldslaming, mocking blow and such…
but is it rly worth it :)? Then you need to do such stuff for the rest of the instance.
Just let buggers die and tell that you don’t have magic atomic magnet trinket
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March 4th, 2009 at 4:38 am
Excellent advice. I see too many tanks who don’t know these basic principles for getting the mobs together, blow their shockwave early, miss half the group and then whine on the wow forums about how “warrior aoe threat sucks”.
I do admit, when I first clicked this, I thought you were going to reiterate Ciderhelm’s video on how to pull (charge in, TC, run through the mobs, 180 then shockwave). But this is a different approach that is definitely important as we aren’t always blessed with all melee mobs.
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March 5th, 2009 at 10:08 am
I understand about deep wounds but that isn’t something I can count on to always be there when I need it, HS is. Also Cleave is tied to your swing timer as well and on 4 mob pulls you at least need to do it twice (if Glyphed) and only if it hits them all, which it might not as it isn’t smart, also DW is a DoT which isn’t going to hold against DPS if your focus is elsewhere.
As well Devastate sucks now, I use it when my other abilities are on cooldown mostly. On bosses I stack it early to help the Melee types but otherwise it is last on my priority list.
Most of the abilities that benifit from base weapon damage are also tied to weapon timers and for multi mob tanking I think that a fast weapon and HS will prove far more useful than hoping you crit and get deep wounds to proc.
As a side not to new tanks, The Red Sword of Courage has the same tooltip DPS as a Titansteel weapon and half the swing time. Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle is your friend.
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March 12th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
As I’m a relatively new tank that has only got a dozen or so heroic 5-mans under my belt I believe I’ve gotten a good grasp at clustering groups. I always seem to have a problem as I’ve started farming runs for the sword in UP during the Skadi encounter. Whether I work my way up from the beginning or run the “reset” angle, I always seem to have problems with getting netted and the shooters/casters splitting off in all directions. What would a good strategy be when you’re constantly getting rooted in those types of situations and need to pick up the mobs that have run amok after your dps that started AoE’s or going after your healer?
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Steele reply on March 13, 2009 2:11 am:
theres warriorbringer to get out of roots, heroic throw and taunt to pull while keeping agro with thunderclap/cleave-spam and shockwave, but skadi will always remain chaotic untill you bring really good dps that clean out the hallway in a matter of seconds. Back in the days i used all the block pieces to get a nice amount of passive damage along with TC/SW so i could really focus on the casters, but true relief only comes from high dps (same with Ymiron, killed him 2 days ago with a 1.4k dps average pug.. epic fight, but wouldnt want to do it again.). another things is.. as tank, you dont necessarily need to be out of the frozen part 100% of the time.. if theres mobs in there shooting at my buddies, i would still go in and get the agro, its not lethal for a tank.
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Arvernien reply on March 13, 2009 1:40 pm:
Two comments on Skadi: Tell the DPS to focus fire on the ranged attackers while you focus on keeping the melee attackers on you. Toss out the occasional heroic throw or charge to grab one. If all the DPS priroitze on the ranged mobs they’ll the kill it before it does significant damage.
Since I’m really good at spotting the ice zone, I have everyone just watch me. If you need to you can put a raid marker on so you are eaiser to spot.
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March 16th, 2009 at 5:28 am
Thanks very much for some very useful and informing tips. I am very new to tanking and all of the above has been very helpful to me. (I have played a dps’er until now and can at least confirm with absolute certainty the idea about wanting to finish the kill, as I have had those exact thoughts myself and now find them just as annoying). I was wondering whether anyone could help me with a problem I have been having related to clustering, once I have centered myself in the mobs, I seem to have trouble tabbing to each of them to maintain threat. Largely because some of them are behind me and I don’t seem to be able to move around well enough to keep them on me. Does anyone have any tips about this, at the moment, if all are in front of me i am fine. I am wondering whether it’s because I play mainly with the mouse and click on hotbars and don’t really use the keyboard at all? Any advice on this is welcome.
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Arvernien reply on March 16, 2009 11:30 am:
To properly tank as a warrior you really need to use the keyboard. There are so many different abilities that you will need in nearly every pull you’ll want to be able to hit them as quickly as possible. (refer to the post on this site about heroic striking).
Regarding the particular problem you stated - once you’ve got basic threat on all of the mobs, back up and hit shockwave to get them all clustered in front of you.
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Steele reply on March 17, 2009 3:51 am:
yep, you get basic agro with thunderclap (glyph!) (directly after charging onto the least moveable mob, then you take a few steps back and all the mobs will group up directly in front of you.. thats when you hit shockwave and start to cleave / tab-shieldslam or whatever you do when your building agro. Its never good to have mobs in your back, not only cant you seem them, but you get less avoidance too since they are hitting you in the back and you cant parry/block that. put your main abilities on the numbers 1-9 (with the most used on 1-5) and make some nice makros like revenge&hs or thunderclap and cleave, my favourite is charge and taunt/stun. then you will be tanking with your left hand inputting movement and main skills, right hand for looking around, clicking targets and clicking additional skills. later you will maybe want to make keybinds for all your skills (i dont, but i can see the point in saving time).
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