Loading ...Should I Gear, Gem or Enchant for Defense?
Upon reaching level 80, there is one very clear objective for any tank and that is to acquire 540 Defense Skill to make us uncrittable. The challenge we are presented with as we make our way through heroics, naxx and beyond is how to maintain that 540 Defense because the reality is that some amazing pieces just don’t have a whole lot of defense. Which begs the question, should I gear, gem or enchant for Defense?
For the sake of this post, I’m going to assume that you’re the type of person that likes to max out their health. This isn’t to say that this is the only way to gear, but it is the type of gearing methodology that’s actually going to struggle with tiptoeing the 540 line.
Gemming: The Baseline
16 Defense Rating vs 24 Stamina
We have the opportunity to make this trade in a lot of pieces of our gear, so the real question that we’ll be asking when we take a look at the gear and enchants to follow is, “Is this piece of gear or enchant better than just gemming for Defense Rating?”
The Gear, Gem and Enchant Defense/Stamina Ratios
Trinkets: 32 Defense Rating vs 111 Stamina [3.47]
Bracers: 12 Defense Rating vs 40 Stamina [3.33]
Boots: 8 Defense Rating vs 22 Stamina [2.75]
Trinkets: 42 Defense Rating vs 111 Stamina [2.64]
Trinkets: 65 Defense Rating vs 162 Stamina [2.49]
Trinkets: 65 Defense Rating vs 155 Stamina [2.38]
Trinkets: 84 Defense Rating vs 162 Stamina [1.93]
Boots: 8 Defense Rating vs 15 Stamina [1.86]
Trinkets: 84 Defense Rating vs 155 Stamina [1.85]
Trinkets: 65 Defense Rating vs 111 Stamina [1.71]
— Gems: 16 Defense Rating vs 24 Stamina [1.5] —
Trinkets: 84 Defense Rating vs 111 Stamina [1.32]
Chest: 22 Defense Rating vs 275 Health [1.05]
Shield: 20 Defense Rating vs 18 Stamina [0.90]
Cloak: 16 Defense Rating vs 225 Armor [0.69]
Uh… what am I looking at!?
The gear, gem and enchant comparisons are all sorted based on the numbers on the right which represent the Stamina (or equivalent Stamina in case of Health and Armor) divided by the Defense Rating. What you can take away from this is the higher a comparison is on the list, the more you want to stick with the Stamina choice. Conversely, the lower a comparison is on the list, the more you want to go for the Defense portion.
To explain further, we know based on looking at the list that we’re always better off gemming for Defense than we are enchanting our Boots and Bracers. On the flip side, we’re always better off enchanting our Chest, Shield and Cloak for Defense instead of gemming for it.
As you can see, I’ve added a number of trinket decisions to the list too. In every case, but one we’re better off using a Stamina trinket and gemming for Defense. (all the trinkets are higher than the gem comparison on the list) The one exception is when faced with the choice between Repelling Charge (84 Defense) and Essence of Gossamer (111 Stamina). In this case, we’re better of gemming for Stamina and gearing for Defense because the trinket comparison is lower on the list.
What about Socket bonuses?
Ah, yes, the fun part. (or not so fun part, if you’re afraid of a little math) When it comes to socket bonuses, we’re still only dealing with Defense and Stamina gems. So, let’s take a look at couple examples.
1. Conqueror’s Siegebreaker Breastplate
For our first example, we’re naturally putting a Stamina gem in the blue slot. It’s the Yellow socket that we’re curious about. If we put a 16 Defense Gem in it, we’ll get 6 more, for a total of 22. We divide 24 Stamina by that and we’re left with [1.09] which means we’re better off going for the socket bonus here than using any Defense Trinket.
Again we’re looking at whether we should socket the yellow socket with a defense gem for the set bonuses or not. In this case, if we put a 16 Defense Gem in it, we’ll gain 9 Stamina which we’ll subtract from the 24 Stamina we otherwise would have gotten. 15 Stamina divided by 16 Defense leaves us with [0.94]. Which means you’re better off gemming the Deathdealers for Defense instead of Conqueror’s Siegebreaker Breastplate.
…and that’s where I’ll leave you
Because now, it’s your turn. If you want to min/max your toon for as much Stamina as possible, this shows you the best way to accomplish that. If you don’t want to, this guide will show you where you’re making the biggest sacrifices. Best of luck, happy tanking!
May 11th, 2009 at 7:50 am
Ah, picking up on my dilemma. I actually, to the utter horror of the min-maxer in me, noticed that I forgot to have my bracers enchanted. I was very excited about the extra def possibility, but now I am going with stamina instead.
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Veneretio reply on May 11, 2009 7:56 am:
Hehe, ya, this one has been sitting half completed for a long time. Your tweets definitely were a large part of the reason I completed it.
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May 11th, 2009 at 8:01 am
What about other stats in addition to +def for a relatively new 80? I find myself well over the defense minimum no matter what I’m wearing. I’ve been replacing my +def gems and enchants with +stam because that’s the obvious choice. However, I’m left wondering if I should be throwing something other than pure stamina in there when I have the chance. Reading your article on Expertise suggests that +exp should be a big part of the mix, but finding the right combination is incredibly vexing. All the trade-offs make my brain hurt, to be honest. Could this formula be massaged to work on other stats?
I’ve had so many sideways gear changes (Cloak of Peaceful Resolutions vs. Tattered Drape, for example) that sometimes I just don’t know what to do. +stam and +armor are obvious, but since I find myself rage starved fairly often (particularly as an OT, where I pretty much just stand there and auto-swing the whole time–that just sucks), I’m leaning towards something more offense-related so I get hit more often and do more damage to help with rage generation.
Thoughts?
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Veneretio reply on May 11, 2009 8:28 am:
At first, things are going to feel very out of control largely due to lack of options. What you want to be working towards are different sets of gear. Generally speaking, enchant/gem threat oriented pieces (items that already have expertise/hit) for threat and enchant/gem survival oriented pieces (items that lack threat stats) for survival.
Once you’ve done that you’ll be able to shift your gear around for more threat in some situations and more survival in others. (and from there you can even split your survival set into different ways to take less damage depending on the size and frequency of the damage) A lot of tanks try to accomplish both goals in 1 set, but there’s really no reason to since add-ons like Itemrack or Outfitter will make this gear switches instantly for you.
Once you start thinking of items in this way, you’ll realize that there really aren’t a lot of sidegrades.
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Scottvyper reply on May 11, 2009 8:33 am:
For a new 80, getting the 540 defense minimum should be the first priority. What a lot of tanks don’t realize though is you shouldn’t completely give up on defense when you’ve reached 540. More defense doesn’t hurt, and most high-end gear doesn’t have as much def as their heroic or crafted variants. So it never hurts to have extra defense. Stamina is definitely a must, as your healers will love you for it. Strength is not a bad thing to work on as well, as it increase your AP and Block.
As for the rage issue, which kind of weapon are you using? For a while I was using the def sword out of UK, but the problem with weapons like that is the auto-swing is slow, which means you won’t generate much rage from it if the mob isn’t attacking you. A faster weapon will generate more rage and help you in the long run. Also, remember in instances that rats, maggots, spiders, etc aren’t just there for decoration. 2-3 of those little critters on a charge/auto-swing and you should have more then enough rage to get you started.
That’s my opinions anyway, take them as you will.
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Verata reply on July 2, 2009 6:01 am:
Being a “competent” tank but still learning the nuances of the class. I feel that after the 540 min def is reached it is best to gem/chant for EXP/HR because as tanks we need to generate threat to some dergree so we can keep them “beating on us” and rage gen/control is consistant. My understanding is that we gen rage when we hit or are being hit. Aviodance is good (DEF rating adding to all three avoidance stats to some degree)but in my opinion NOT being hit reduces your potential rage gen by half. I would much rather rely on gear for DEF rating and have the options of chants/gems for threat or avoidance.
A noobs opinion
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Asase reply on May 11, 2009 9:49 am:
My main gripe with +275 HP to chest is that it doesn’t scale with raid buffs. I find +10 to Stats more and more appealing (both on my Lock, who likes the Health, Int/Crit, and Spirit due to Fel Armor and the Warrior) because it provides what I like to see as “middle of the road” benefits. 275 Health, and even 22 Defense, are just as good when you’re soloing as they are in a raid. But at least stats scale with kings, meaning you squeeze more worth out of them in a group (and I’m assuming in a 25 man you’ll get full kings).
Here’s my napkin math based off of wowwiki’s formula, feel free to let me know where it’s gone astray.
Sta: 10 stamina = 100 health, 110 health with kings. Not sure how Vitality (3/3 = +6% to Sta/Str) plays with fractions. Does 10 Sta = 100 + 6% = 106 HP? Even if not, the talent may at least be enough to push a fraction over into making it onto the character sheet.
Str: 10 Strength = 20 AP, 22 AP with kings and a nominal 5 BV (6 with kings)
Agi: 10 Agi = 20 armor, 22 with kings. +.16% to crit (~.175 with kings) +.33% to dodge (.36% with kings).
Understand this is a topic for min/maxing health and defense - but I still feel +10 stats may have some worth to someone who is sitting comfortably with both.
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Asase reply on May 11, 2009 9:54 am:
Of course as I hit submit I see Ven’s line, “A lot of tanks try to accomplish both goals in 1 set, but there’s really no reason to since add-ons like Itemrack or Outfitter will make this gear switches instantly for you.”
D’oh. I realize +10 to Stats heads right into this pratfall. Right now I have just one chestpiece worth enchanting so my initial reaction is to make it something which tries to achieve both threat and survivability. As I accumulate gear I’m sure I’ll start to differentiate between the two purposes more and enchant/gem more appropriately. The problem is in the first few stages when you’re limited to a single set of gear to strike a balance between both demands.
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Jacob reply on May 11, 2009 2:52 pm:
I think a lot of the heavy theorycrafters play a lot, and collect a lot of gear over their play time. For someone with a lot of gear, it makes sense to have distinct sets of gear which have distinct roles. Gem+enchant to the special role of each piece.
The general advice overlooks players who may not play as much and who may only have one chestpiece. If you only have one set of gear, it makes more sense to go for gems+enchants that bring things back to average.
Veneretio reply on May 11, 2009 3:47 pm:
Jacob, I would be careful with assumptions, it’s very possible that you play more than I especially since it’s golf season now.
Utilizing multiple sets isn’t an avid player only way of gearing, it’s very accessible for even the most sporadic player. You just have to pay attention to the pieces you have and not go vendoring them when you get “upgrades”.
Cornfedhick reply on May 11, 2009 2:46 pm:
If you’re only the OT, you should be in any stance other than Def so you can increase your dps and gain rage at the same time. If the MT goes down or you need to pick up an add, all you need to do is use your wonderful Warbringer talent to zip over to the location and swap to Def stance and start your priority rotation as normal. You’ll have to be out of Def stance anyways to use Shattering throw anyways.
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Chet reply on May 13, 2009 1:40 pm:
I have to disagree with this. There are 2 things you can do as an OT when you don’t have anything else to do. First and generally the best option is to stay in def. stance and SS > Rev > Rev > X, where X is something like Shockwave, TClap, Demo Shout. I think I learned that from one of Vene’s posts. It has improved my OT DPS a lot though, from trying to DPS in zerker or battle stances.
Secondly, and in certain cases this is better, you can stand around in intervene range of most of the group, and wait until you’re needed to do something like, I dunno, protect the healer or maybe keep a DPS from pulling aggro. This isn’t a bad idea for DPS warriors either, on fights like maly where threat capping can be a legitimate problem.
Of course, usually you can do the second while doing the first. If you need more concentration though, or lightning quick reactions, then sometimes it’s better to hang back and be watchful.
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May 11th, 2009 at 8:21 am
This is great, I’m starting to think ahead and thinking about gearing/gemming/enchanting at 80 and even now as I’m leveling and getting new gear. Now I will admit that I’m not very numbers oriented and most of this was gibberish, but I’m hoping that it will make more sense eventually…maybe another coffee or two will do the trick.
Thanks!
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Arvernien reply on May 11, 2009 11:44 am:
As you are leveling you need differing amounts. The table below is pretty close to the exact numbers. When you first hit a new level you’ll be short 5 skill points so you’ll need to up the rating a bit initially to make up for it.
required Rating Inherent required
level Def skill conversion Def skill rating
70 490 2.3650 350 331
71 495 2.6203 355 367
72 500 2.8793 360 403
73 505 3.1383 365 439
74 510 3.3973 370 476
75 515 3.6563 375 512
76 520 3.9153 380 548
77 525 4.1743 385 584
78 530 4.4333 390 621
79 535 4.6923 395 657
80 540 4.9180 400 689
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Arvernien reply on May 11, 2009 11:46 am:
the table didn’t format very well. The column headers are (left to right) Level, required defense skill, rating to skill conversion, your max defense skill at that level (not including any rating), and finally the defense rating you need to get the extra 140 skill to be uncrittable.
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Minuette - Daggerspine (US) reply on May 12, 2009 8:49 am:
I know that my defense scales as I level and that I don’t need 540 defense now, and honestly I’m not terribly worried about what my defense is at while leveling, as long as I can take a hit or two my pocket healer will keep me up. My warrior is a lot more survivable now then she was even two levels ago. I’m using mostly the crafted tanking stuff that I’ve been making with blacksmithing.
It’s really nice to see the actual breakdown of defense at the different levels too, thank you for the chart.
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May 11th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Vene - how would you work the socket bonus decision when you add an Enduring Forest Emerald (8 defense / 12 stam) http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40089 into the mix?
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Veneretio reply on May 11, 2009 12:09 pm:
8 Defense/12 Stamina vs 24 Stamina works the same as 16 Defense vs 24 Stamina. It’s the exact same ratio of [1.50]
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Belak reply on May 12, 2009 4:46 am:
/facepalm. I knew that. Or should have.
So do you just recommend using the hybrid if you’re trying to fine tune that 540 line a bit more or need more yellow gems for socket bonuses (bonii?)?
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marklar reply on May 12, 2009 11:06 am:
but it doesn’t work the same if you compare a green gem (to get the socket bonus) with a blue gem, does it?
i’ll use your examples:
1) 8def/12stam vs. 24 stam: you either get 14 def + 12 stam OR 24 stam, so 12/14 = 0.857
2) 8 def/12 stam vs. 24 stam: you either get 8 def + 21 stam OR 24 stam, so 3/8 = 0.375
this seems to make the argument for using greens instead of yellows and keeping the socket bonus even more powerful.
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Veneretio reply on May 12, 2009 12:20 pm:
You’re absolutely right. That’s some fascinating math that has unexpectedly emerged from this. Good find.
Elviswind reply on May 12, 2009 11:27 am:
So the reasoning is that the difference in stamina between the 8def/12sta gem and the 24sta gem is 12sta . . . the ratio of net sta to net def is 1.5?
That makes it sound like it’s a toss up between the two gems, but I would think in most cases the 24sta gem would be better if the goal is to max out your health.
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May 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am
When socket bonus is good (9/12sta etc) I gem red sockets iwth 8exp/12sta and yellow with 8def/12sta.
My biggest problem was actually T8. Upon switching into 4/5 T8/8.5 I lost my meta (32sta 2% armor). Funnily enough whole siegebreaker doesn’t have a single red socket. And my bracers (leviathan 10), belt (new badges one), legs (sovereignty) or boots (spiked deathdealers) didn’t have a red socket either.
So in order to activate the meta without sticking a red gem in a blue socket or something I placed a 8exp/8def gem on the t8 helm.
How come blizzard made an entire set full of only yellow and blue sockets, beats me.
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Veneretio reply on May 11, 2009 12:12 pm:
You’d be better off using your Prismatic socket you get from adding an extra socket to your belt in order to allow you to use whatever type of Red gem you desire.
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diaz reply on May 11, 2009 2:53 pm:
It doesn’t make a difference really. Assuming that he prefers stamina over other stats of same budget (which most of us do), he’s losing a potential 12 stamina on the head socket (having an orange gem instead of a green one).
Activating the meta through the belt socket would involve a purple gem (prioritising stamina still) which is again a 12 stamina loss. Same thing.
You could actually argue that the solution with orange gem in head socket is better, because it’s self sustaining in its slot; were you to acquire a second belt for an alternative set, your solution would require him to also socket that belt with a red/purple gem which reduces overall flexibility.
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Veneretio reply on May 11, 2009 3:41 pm:
Good point, the 2 solutions are pretty much identical and there definitely is a benefit to guaranteeing your helm is self-sustaining by having the red gem in it.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:43 am
What’s the optimal meta gem these days? Eternal Earthsiege (defense + SBV) or Austere Earthsiege (stamina and armor)?
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Veneretio reply on May 12, 2009 12:21 pm:
Stamina + Armor is my preference by a large margin.
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Battlestar reply on June 23, 2009 9:11 am:
Stamina + Armor is almost always the best choice by a long shot.
That said, once you have a replacement for your T7.5 Head, I would recommend regeming it with + 5% Bock Value, a +16 strength gem, and slapping a Presence of Might (+10 def/+10 sta/+15 BV) from ZG for your Block set.
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May 13th, 2009 at 5:29 am
In Naxx 25 I’m starting to pass on a lot of actual upgrades because they are killing me by not having enough DEF.
My Bolstered Legplates have 81 DEF rating and the only way I can replace them is to enchant my cloak and chest for DEF so I don’t fall under the 540.
Hammock
Eitrigg
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Veneretio reply on May 13, 2009 7:07 am:
Then do it. There’s no reason to pass on upgrades because you have to re-enchant or re-socket things to make them work.
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Hammock reply on May 13, 2009 10:11 am:
What is your recommendation on DEF rating though? Is it good to strive for ABOVE 540(as I am doing) or is it kosher to be at 540 while maintaining good avoidance and hit points?
I suppose you’ve touched on the important of defense in terms of avoidance. Perhaps I will re-read your thoughts on it.
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Veneretio reply on May 13, 2009 10:59 am:
The set I use most often is one that sits just above 540 and maximizes Stamina, but sometimes I’ll also change it up and focus more on Defense and Dodge if I feel the encounter warrants it.
It’s for this reason that I rarely vendor things. Like for instance, when tanking Hodir, I wear 3 frost resist pieces + maly25’s high defense legs. I use those legs also for my threat set since they’re high expertise. However, for standard bosses that just stand there and beat the crap out of me like Auriaya, I’ll put on my Kolo25 legs that feature less defense, but very high Armor and Stamina.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I’m amazed people have difficulty meeting the defense goal of 540. Since I hit 80 I haven’t been below 550. I have one defense gem (eternal earthsiege diamond) and only 2 defense enchants (head and shoulders). Initially I had a few enduring forest emeralds and the 16 defense enchantment in my cloak but as I acquired new gear I was able to swap them out for threat gems (guardian’s twilight opal).
It’s really not that hard when you are starting out at 80. Get to a blacksmith and get the Daunting Handguards & Legplates. Tempered Titansteel Helm & Boots and the Titansteel Shieldwall.
And check out Vene’s article on Defense Trinkets.
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Veneretio reply on May 13, 2009 11:18 pm:
It starts easy. It gets harder as your gear improves especially if your goal is maximizing your Stamina.
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May 14th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
hello, great site! I have been trolling around various tanking sites for about 2 months now, and I have to say this site (along with tanklikeagirl) has helped me improve dramatically! so, very big thank you for your work. Ok, let me start by saying im a bit of a nub. i dont have as much time to play as id like, so Im just now making the transition to 10 mans (most of my time is spent in heroic 5s). I am thrilled at the prospect of multiple tank sets, and I have a few pieces set aside with varying stats, so the question is, from the pov of a tank who isnt really end-game so to speak, is it still feasible to attempt multiple sets even if i take a hit on stats for each given set? ex.: I am putting together a survivability set for trash, and my def is way over at like 556 with high avoidance, and I would like to gem for stam and def. However, i would be sitting extremely low on AP and expertise. For my boss threat set (complete with deep wounds spec) my expertise, strength/AP and block rating are high(how did that happen?lol) but my stam drops to around 24k and def dips to right at 540 (id have to give up a threat gem slot for it). So is my best bet to tread the line of one all around balanced set until I get better gear? Admittedly, min-maxing and tank theorycrafting are sometimes a bit overwhelming to my simple mind, but I love doing it, and tanking is the most fun I have with my clothes on. OK , hope i didn’t confuse you too much. Thanks again, keep it up!
Vendelcrow
Gaurdians of Hindarfell, Aggramar
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Arvernien reply on May 15, 2009 10:37 am:
It sounds like you have the trash and boss sets reversed. On trash use the set with more threat and reduced defense. On bosses use the set with the most defense and stamina. Check out Vene’s post on the multiple sets:
http://www.tankingtips.com/2009/04/03/back-to-basics-tanking-stats/
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May 14th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
i am finding myself gemming mainly expertise atm…. wherever i can i am getting +12 sta + 8 exp or +16 exp. is it just me or is everyone finding a problem keeping up expertise stats with ulduar gear ?
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Arvernien reply on May 15, 2009 10:39 am:
I have used many Guardian’s Twilight Opals to get to the first expertise target (164). If you are short you can always eat Rhinoliscous Wyrmsteak for an extra 40 expertise.
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May 15th, 2009 at 6:12 am
Sure does.
Take Repelling Charge for example.
It’s tough to choose this over those stamina trinkets out there, but it’s a heck of an easy way to give your Def a real bump so you can switch some gear around, be it for higher armor, or for a set bonus.
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June 2nd, 2009 at 2:28 am
mostly I would aggre with you there, but lets say at the Hodir fight with the frost resist I did rather replace my dodge trinket with than with my 111 sta trinket and have more sta gems in my frost gear
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October 1st, 2009 at 8:59 am
Vene-
Hate to beat a dead horse here, but I’m got an interesting dilemma. Having just started raiding with my re-roll, I haven’t picked up much in the way of trinkets. I was sporting the Black Heart and The Brewfest stam trinket. The other night, I picked up Repelling Charge. My first instinct, which I followed, was to equip it, drop defense gems where I could and re-gem for stam. Then I remembered your little list here. I’m somewhat comforted to see that, had I been using old blue, I would have made the right choice, but the brewfest trinket has 59 more stam than old blue. How does Repelling Charge rank on the list vs the Brewfest trinket? (I’m questioning my choice because even after re-gemming, I am still about 500 hp lower than before. However, on use of the trinket, it puts me about 2500 above where I was).
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