Is Resilience back?
In the past, we’ve looked at the relationship between Defense and Resilience in order to cheat the Defensive minimum (currently 540 defense) however, this practice has largely fallen out of flavour as the accessibility of PvP oriented gear that’s superior to PvE oriented gear just isn’t unbalanced anymore. That doesn’t mean though that we should ignore the PvP enchants though…
The Quest for even more Stamina
A while back, we looked at Defense and how we could maximize our health when hovering around the 540 minimum, but what I missed was this enchant:
I had remembered a while back that I had noticed a trend of the more savvy, bleeding-edge tanks were starting to utilized it on their shoulders and in a recent discussion with a friend of mine, it got brought to my attention again. Why aren’t we using this enchant?
What we give up
20 Dodge and 15 Defense
What we gain
30 Stamina
How this matches up…
If we look at the trade in the same light as the Defense:Stamina ratio post then it looks pretty hot, but then that’s not exactly all the information this time as there’s the Dodge component thrown in there as well. Does the dodge matter if we’re going for maximum Stamina? Nope, it really doesn’t.
15 Defense vs 15 Resilience
Or more to the point, how much equivalent Defense towards becoming uncrittable are we gaining from 15 Resilience?
22 Defense Rating.
What it all means
If you’re a maximum Stamina junkie then there’s absolutely no reason not to use this enchant. It’s going to offer you more rating points towards uncrittable than the defense shoulder enchant and it’s going to offer you 30 Stamina as well.
It’s a simple win-win. Get it.
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:33 am
Wooo! I forgot the resil-rating conversion and ignored this chant also. Maybe this will put me over 30k unbuffed. I’m a huge stam stacker
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June 23rd, 2009 at 7:47 am
If not getting hit actually mattered, the dodge / defense enchant would be pretty good.
But with the state of healer mana, and how hard mobs hit in Ulduar (especially hard modes) stamina is by far the most important stat. I tend to lean towards a balance between avoidance and EH, but avoidance isn’t very important right now. (unless you’re playing with Algalon)
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June 23rd, 2009 at 8:03 am
You know, I have seen several tank bloggers recommend this enchant now and I am wondering if I should start considering it. I think this chant will get me close to 31k health and I would probably lose about .3% avoidance. I am thinking more and more that it is worth it.
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June 23rd, 2009 at 8:07 am
Master’s Inscription of the Pinnacle give 52 dodge and 15 def. So for inscriber is not an option, you loose too much dodge to get 30 stamina.
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Veneretio reply on June 23, 2009 10:55 am:
Well you still could, but then that defeats the purpose of being an inscriber. That said, I’ve never been a fan of Inscription for tanks and recommend Jewelcrafting, Blacksmithing, Enchanting, Leathworkering or Mining all instead. (They all offer Stamina bonuses)
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June 23rd, 2009 at 8:34 am
Another PVP enchant that’s not bad for a DPS spec is Arcanum of Triumph (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44069) until you Revered with Knights of the Ebon Blade and get Arcanum of Torment (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44149).
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June 23rd, 2009 at 8:40 am
and isn’t resilience getting buffed?
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Cleaved reply on June 23, 2009 8:50 am:
Supposedly, Resilience is getting buffed to reduce damage across the board (from all types of damage) by 10%.
I don’t see how they are going to balance that with PVE. Couldn’t we wear all PVP gear and take 10% less damage AND have huge Stamina AND be Crit immune?
I guess the only drawback is the lack of other Defensive stats… Expertise, Hit, Dodge, etc. I guess the issue is, how much Resilience do you need to stack to get 10% less damage taken?
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Veneretio reply on June 23, 2009 9:11 am:
It’s only getting buffed to reduce the damage from players. So, it’ll still function the exact same in terms of PvE (assuming they don’t nerf it, of course) while sporting a significant PvP buff.
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Roffe reply on June 23, 2009 2:27 pm:
From what i’ve read they are making resi only working against other players, so that the pvp gear wont be attractive for pve… I think it is for the test realm only so far, heard it some days ago so might have changed :p
Cleaved reply on June 23, 2009 4:11 pm:
I never PVP, so I just skimmed that article on WoW.com, guess I shoulda read it more closely
Roffe reply on June 24, 2009 3:19 pm:
Also note, if that change will come, You wont be able to get crit immune from pvp gear, (resi)
But! i also read that only the damage reduction thing wont affect pve.
Do anyone know? if you still will be able to become crit immune from resi, or are they, as i was told, removing resi effects completely in pve?
as i cant find anything about that in the blue posts.
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June 23rd, 2009 at 8:54 am
I pretty much got this the moment I stepped into ulduar - seeing my issue was getting that comfortable health buffer for surviving 2 big hits (considdering some rolling hots and such). The trade off is well worth it!
I might go back tot he sons of hodir enchant later on, should I be convinced I really don’t need the extra stamina. I doubt that’ll happen in a progression environment though.
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June 23rd, 2009 at 9:35 am
I love this enchant, 20 dodge and 15 def is nothing compared to 30stam, esp with diminishing return on dodge.
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bongo reply on June 24, 2009 3:40 am:
sorry I haven’t heard about this - what are you referring to?
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Marrick reply on June 24, 2009 7:34 am:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Dodge#Diminishing_returns
Essentially the more dodge you have, the less dodge each point of dodge rating will give you. (It’s more complicated than that as you can see from the link, but that’s the basic concept)
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Rak reply on June 24, 2009 9:42 am:
While what you are saying is factually accurate, you may wish to check out this thread: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/50733-diminishing-returns-avoidance-not-really.html
*Effective* avoidance seems to be linear, or slightly better than linear, even though the rating requirements diminish.
cori reply on June 27, 2009 10:55 pm:
yeah but to get 1% avoidance at 75% you need a much higher rating than 1% at 0%
Chet reply on June 28, 2009 5:06 am:
yeah, I think the point though is that for the same amount of avoidance you get hit 1% less than you would at the previous avoidance level, whether that’s at 0% or 75% (at 75% you’re getting about 1% of the 25% (~0.25%) and at 0% you’re getting 1% of 100%). This seems to be all about perspective. From one perspective it’s very nearly linear, and from another, DR takes its toll.
Rak reply on June 28, 2009 5:17 am:
@cori:
Again, it is factually correct to say that it takes more dodge/parry rating to gain an increase in dodge/parry %. However, if you actually read the thread I linked, you would learn that you actually get MORE effective avoidance per rating point the higher your avoidance is. See this image: http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8805/chart1.jpg
What matters is how often you are actually going to avoid attacks.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:09 am
Wow I only gave that a passing thought the other day after once again grabbing the tanking enchant for my new shoulders….now I have to run back!!
Thanks again for opening our eyes! 
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June 23rd, 2009 at 10:13 am
Def gonna get this shoulder enchant then, im way over def cap (558) and my dodge is sitting at a perfect 26% so im wanting that 30 stam :3
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June 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 am
Was not aware this enchant existed, as I normally do not pay attention to pvp gear. Looking forward to spending some honor points on this. Thanks Vene.
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June 23rd, 2009 at 10:28 am
By the way, 15 resil is equivalent to 22 def rating in terms of crit immunity.
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Veneretio reply on June 23, 2009 10:42 am:
Hehe, yup. That’s in the post
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ch1d3th reply on June 23, 2009 3:28 pm:
Haha yeah I realize that now. Of course I missed it in the post and did the calculation independently, lol…
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June 23rd, 2009 at 11:07 am
OK coming from someone that does not PvP can you tell me how long it may take to grind the honor?
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Dion reply on June 23, 2009 11:22 am:
not long at all mate
just bash out a few wintergraps (grab the quests aswell) and your sorted!
If you really cba just trade in your stone keepers shards
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June 23rd, 2009 at 11:37 am
I’ve been using this for a while on my EH set (which is primarily my only set anymore, other than one for BV (and one for threat) that I use occasionally for content I outgear). I’m glad someone I look to for advice agrees that it’s a good enchant. I tend to forget about the resil that it gives me when counting toward the uncrittable mark. Maybe I should consider it so I can re-enchant for even more EH.
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June 23rd, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Nice observation Vene! Now I feel like a tool; I spent forever looking for just a bit more hp so I could blow the 42k fully buffed mark pre-3.1. (personal vanity) and all along it was sitting right there, under my stack of honour points. damn.
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June 24th, 2009 at 5:18 am
Everyone comments on the stamina, but the resilience is the big reason to get this. That virtual four defense skill is an absolute life saver when you get more Ulduar gear.
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June 24th, 2009 at 6:26 am
Well - Since early TBC I’m close looking @ pvp rewards to see if something fits nice for tanking. Old school people prolly remember that Gladiator shield had more stamina/armor then badge reward/exalted reward/Nightbane shield. Also it was close to Gruul shield but former one had hit which was first upgrade over gladiator’s raw power.
PVP shoulder enchant is great for EH gearing altho I gave up a bit on it once I reached 35k unbuffed since my other stats went down too much.
Current good picks are also Furious Gladiator’s Cleaver
Have same stamina sa TG, with one additional blue socket, loss of defense is covered with resilience, you trade parry for crit and str for AP but you gain 24 more stamina - yes it’s 2.6 speed that’s not that much useful on bosses however for trash tanking and offtankin it’s imba.
Without randomized stats on Shields, pvp shield is not that great like it was in TBC but also it’s best EH piece only beaten by Algalon/Northern Barier.
Druids and DKs on other side can still gain huge benefits from Gladiator’s 2H weapons.
I would love to see some thrown with huge chunk of stamina and ~2.0 speed but that wont happen since it will make Deadly Throw overpowered.
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Sephirawth reply on June 24, 2009 2:12 pm:
I have notcied the same thing… As my HP was climbing higher my avaoidance (especially parry) started to go down. I started to focus on avoidance on gear to catch back up and ended up with over 35k HP unbuffed and 26% dodge but only 17% parry where as I had 20% in t7.
And another thing…. IS anyone else sad about losing your t7 2 set bonus… I have the 4 set seigebreaker and I am not too thrilled…..
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Veneretio reply on June 24, 2009 2:31 pm:
Ya, right now I find myself primarily switching between an EH set and a 4p T8 set, but both sets really don’t feel like they have the oomph that the 2p T7 offered. (which is why my threat set still features the T7 chest and gloves instead of the T8 ones)
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Roffe reply on June 24, 2009 3:34 pm:
Same for me, only that i use head and gloves, since i dont feel that block rating is really improving my threat as much as block value,
And in the coming patch (3.2) block value on items will be doubled,
So a hint, i would love to read a post about block and how good/bad it is, when the patch is released
Veneretio reply on June 24, 2009 4:01 pm:
My opinion in a nut shell currently is block rating and block value are both bad with rating being slight less bad. After the patch, they will both still be bad, but equally bad. (although block value sets are going to be a lot more fun for pvp, I think)
So in terms of PvE, nothing changes. You still want to avoid block like the plague when tanking anything serious.
Mookey reply on June 24, 2009 4:52 pm:
“You still want to avoid block like the plague when tanking anything serious”
Fully blocked attacked that have additional frost damage from Frozen Blows component does no damage. Seen that once however I was never brave enough to try to tank hodir in full block gear.
Would really love to have more fun based run to test it in practice, we are too much focused on progression right now.
Roffe reply on June 25, 2009 2:58 am:
“So in terms of PvE, nothing changes. You still want to avoid block like the plague when tanking anything serious.”
So i’ve been told, just not really why.
btw Forgot that our blocks actually deals some threat aswell,
But you do still think its worth grabbing a block gear?
June 24th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
This is the enchant that I used when it came out; which was before I decided to buy the hodir rep for the pinnacle one. I never looked at resil as a way to replace defense because even if it made you uncrittable it didn’t give the avoid bonus although for a purely EH set I guess that shouldn’t matter.
Before I start experimenting I’d like to know how much defense I would need to support this enchant, 536 is what I’m thinking though.
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Veneretio reply on June 24, 2009 2:03 pm:
536 is the correct number.
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Sam reply on June 24, 2009 2:04 pm:
Alright, thanks.
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June 25th, 2009 at 2:34 am
The problem I have with the PVP enchant is you in the end will waste the resilience rating for nothing. I’m hoovering at something like 545 > 555 defence in my current gear where sure, I’d drop a bit by changing enchants, but the net-gain is 30 stam in most setups and a stat that does nothing for me.
Still if you’re on the line “stamina rules” then yes, I would very much go for this, I’m not sure it’s always worth it however.
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Veneretio reply on June 25, 2009 7:40 am:
Ya, the post is certainly catered to the person who wants to maximize their Stamina. If you aren’t toeing the 540 line then you’re going to miss out on a lot of the benefit of this enchant. The beauty of the enchant for the “Stamina Stacker” is that it’ll not only provide 30 stamina, but also provide more uncrittable percentage than the Defense enchant does which in turn will allow for even more Stamina Stacking in other places.
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June 25th, 2009 at 3:31 am
On the bright side Roarc, you will get 0.123% less damage from Fusion Punch dot and from Plasma Blast
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June 25th, 2009 at 10:30 am
One of our tanks pointed this out to me a couple weeks ago. Just seems a shame after doing all the dailies to be exalted with Sons of Hodir to go do PVP for a shoulder enchant. I’ll wait until I finally get my T8 shoulders though.
While we are on the subject, for people like me that do zero pvp, how much honor do I need and whats the easiest way to get it for this enchant?
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Kavtor reply on June 25, 2009 11:42 am:
10k honour.
If you do the the wintergrasp weekly’s you should have it.
Winning wintergrasp while killing 10 players and 3 vehicles will do it.
Or about 3-4 battleground pvp dailies.
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Tankette reply on June 25, 2009 12:12 pm:
Cool, TY. I may have 10K honor left over from TBC. Havent done any PVP since.
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Cornfedhick reply on July 14, 2009 8:41 am:
You can also turn in Stonekeeper’s shards in Wintergrasp to get 2k honor a pop. Thats an extremely fast way and I burned a bunch of my 500+ shards that were going to waste because I never PvP.
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June 26th, 2009 at 9:44 am
So along these line should I go with the 20 resilience to the chest as opposed to the 22 defense i currently have, giveng me an additonal @8 def rating allowing me to gem further for stam
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Veneretio reply on June 27, 2009 12:21 pm:
You absolutely can do that and you’re right that 20 Resilience to chest is the equivalent of 30 Defense Rating netting you 8 extra defense rating. That said eventually, you want enough innate Defense rating from your items to just put 275 Health to chest here.
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June 26th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Hello. My tank is an alt and has not grinded exalted with Sons of Hodir, so he has the Lesser Pinnacle enchant, does this one totally outweigh the lesser pinnacle?
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June 26th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
these are the kinds of posts i love to read. i would have never even thought to look at the PVP enchant.
i did a quick check and somehow i had 18k honor (yay!). went out and blew most of it on this and now i’m sitting at about 538 defense with 30 more stam.
great tradeoff, imo.
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June 29th, 2009 at 6:54 am
One thing I have been a little confused on is that with Defense, it removes Crit from the MOBs attack table, but it also increases their miss chance for the same amount. My guess is that with resilience only removing Crit from the attack table, wouldn’t the % of Crit removed from the attack table be converted to Hit instead of Miss? I know it’s a small number, but it’s another reason why you don’t stack resilience instead of Defense for boss fights.
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July 3rd, 2009 at 1:43 am
If you don’t want or understand how to get honor from PvP you can buy “The Arcanum of the Savage Gladiator” from the Alliance Vanguard quartermasters. It requires exalted with the Alliance Vanguard and costs you 120g (discounted 20% from 150g). It has 30 Stamina and 25 resilience.
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Veneretio reply on July 3, 2009 7:23 am:
It should also be noted that it’s a Head enchant. Personally, I’m not a fan of this enchant even though it offers more crit immunity than the regular tanking helm enchant because it offers less Stamina as well.
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July 11th, 2009 at 4:15 am
Remember, defense rating is converted into block/dodge/parry, whereas resilience only goes towards crit immunity. Defense rating is still the superior stat for tanking, however this enchant coupled with the amount of stam it is, could be considered overall better, for a lot of situations.
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