Loading ...7 Things I’ve learned about Specing
I’ll admit it. I’m an Armory addict. There aren’t many people never mind many tanks that I haven’t Armoryed before. I’ve always been fascinated with how people play and how we all take such different approaches to this game. Specs especially are an interesting one to look at because there’s really no excuses for a bad spec. Your spec isn’t the way it is because of bad luck or lack of gold. Your spec is your own doing and you have the exact same choices as I do.
I feel that we’ve now hit the point where we’ve got a lot of it figured out though. We’ve tested a lot of things and made a lot of mistakes not just as individuals, but as a community. From the trials of time, here’s some things I’ve learned about specing.
1. Five or 15 Points in Arms. No more, no less.
Which is to say, Impale is not a huge Stop sign. You really don’t put 10 points into Arms in order to get Impale. You put 12 points into Arms to get 3/3 Deep Wounds. On the other end, there’s really no spec that should have exactly 8 points in Arms. If you’re going for less than 15 points, you’ve got better options in the Fury and Protection trees than a few extra points in Arms.
Of course, the one exception to this whole rule is that the Unrelenting Assault spec features 37 points in Arms. Suffice to say, it’s in a dramatically different category than traditional specs and the regular rules of specing just aren’t going to apply to it.
2. Gag Order buffs Shield Slam, always.
The text on Gag Order, I must admit, is not only very poorly worded, but also poorly ordered. That said, here’s the facts. Gag Order increases Shield Slam damage by 10%. It does this all the time. Take it.
3. “I have plenty of rage” is not a reason to skip Focused Rage.
The most common conversation I’ve had over the past months is,
Me: “Why aren’t you taking X?”
Bob the Tank: “I’ve already got plenty of rage.”
Me: “If you’ve got too much rage, you’re not Heroic Striking enough.”
Bob the Tank: *random excuse* -or- “Oh.”
Focused Rage is an amazing talent. The reason that so many people are excited about Rage on Avoidance is the exact same reason why you should be excited about Focused Rage. It allows you to go all out sooner and reduces the chance of Rage Starvation.
4. Puncture isn’t worth it.
Which is funny because isn’t it just a weaker version of Focused Rage? Yup, it is. But that’s the problem. It’s weaker than Focused Rage, a lot weaker. In a Protection tree packed with options, it’s just not worth reducing the cost of a skill you’ll be using only half the time when there’s so many better choices available.
5. Incite is one of the Last things you should drop.
Now, I’ll freely admit that a very focused Survival spec can exclude Incite. However, it really should be one of the absolute last threat talents removed when choosing a Survival spec. Simply put, if your spec is anything other than 5/15/51 then it should include Incite.
6. Armored to the Teeth is your first 3 Fury points.
Cruelty was a great threat talent in the Burning Crusade. We’re not playing that expansion anymore though. Armored to the Teeth since it’s conception has always been a better use of talent points than Cruelty. Outside of that, Booming Voice isn’t worth taking unless one is going to venture deeper into the Fury tree. As a result, no matter what your spec’s orientation is going to be, if it’s walking into Fury, the first 3 points should be in Armored to the Teeth.
7. There’s no reason to skip Improved Heroic Strike if you’re already there!
This ones an oddity. The mistake I’m cautioning against here is putting 15 points in Arms and not taking Improved Heroic Strike. Essentially, if you’re doing this you’re assuming that those 3 talent points are better spent in Iron Will or Tactical Mastery. I can’t help, but feel like this approach to specing is a symptom of #3. So, I think it’s worth repeating:
“If you’ve got too much rage, you’re not Heroic Striking enough.”
What have you learned?
We’ve all tried things and continue to try things, but the reality is that the standard specs are the standard specs for a reason. They all have room for a bit of a personal touch, but be cautious with how you make a spec your own. It’s very possible you’re not personalizing it, but instead penalizing it. And, I don’t think any of us want that.
July 17th, 2009 at 9:13 am
lol Vene you know I stalk you on armory… and here… and now twitter… anyway I agree with you wholeheartedly. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to explain to someone why they needed to put another point in one-handed weapon specialization, or something equally ridiculous. I have found that while it’s not always possible to say “this is THE right spec,” it is easy to say “that is the wrong spec.”
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July 17th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Another great post Vene. I especially agree with #6 because as a tank, there are very few, if any, builds that you wouldn’t dump talent points there.
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July 17th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Agree with everything said (although proposed changes to devastate and shield slam could change things).
Sidenote:I once saw a tank with points in puncture but none in focused rage. It made me cry.
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July 17th, 2009 at 9:50 am
My spec has changed since reading your takes. Imp Discpline ftw.
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July 17th, 2009 at 10:08 am
How can anyone NOT take Focused Rage? That’s just silliness. I agree with all of your points, Vene, very good post. I especially agree with #6; I got into an argument with a tank on my server who had no points in AttT, but 5/5 Cruelty. He said that the attack power buff was negligible and he would rather have the crit buff; I told him he was off his rocker, any attack power increase is a threat increase. He just couldn’t seem to grasp the concept.
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July 17th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Hey vene, have you figured out what spec you are going to make in 3.2 to take advantage of full shield spec?
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Veneretio reply on July 17, 2009 10:27 am:
I’ve actually got a post almost ready talking about how to fit 5/5 Shield Spec into your current spec. It’ll probably be the next one I release. I think it’s going to be pretty easy for a lot of the survival oriented specs, but the Deep Wounds spec is going to have a real challenge with it.
I’ll probably run a more survival oriented spec either a 5/10/56 or a 5/15/51 since 3.2 isn’t going to have any trash and the nice thing is both of those specs already have 5/5 Shield spec anyway.
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Kavtor reply on July 17, 2009 3:50 pm:
I’m hoping to head back to deep wounds.
The vindication change means ret pallys apply improved demo shout for two talents by auto attacking. Rather than our 1 GCD per 30 seconds and 5 talent points.
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Drae reply on July 20, 2009 12:50 pm:
I always felt imp demo shout was too expensive point wise for what you get. Granted it’s a good talent on heavy hitting bosses, but it seems so expensive @ 5pts.
I think this just proves it.
My question is: if you like 5/15/51 and imp. demo shout is overwritten by pallys is it still worth it for 5/5 commanding pressence?
July 17th, 2009 at 10:21 am
This article, oddly enough, directly relates to a discussion I was having with a recent Prot Warrior applicant to our guild. I’m hoping he comes here and reads it, as he does not have Focused Rage in his build. Anyone who asks me for tanking help, I direct them here first, so they are on the same page as I am when we start discussing tanking principles. Great article, Vene.
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July 17th, 2009 at 11:22 am
I’ve learned that in my current spec (which I’ve adopted for working through hard-modes, even if it isn’t as survival focused as it COULD be) without deep wounds:
There are times you really have to work your ASS off to hold threat.
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July 17th, 2009 at 11:22 am
oh, and I hear they got that thar armory on them iphones now!
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July 17th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Just curious why you chose Imp spell reflect over Imp revenge? I’ve seen some other tanks doing it as well, and I thought maybe it was for a specific fight I hadn’t attempted yet.
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Veneretio reply on July 17, 2009 12:07 pm:
It’s the 4% Miss Rate of Imp Spell Reflect not the whole reflecting additional party members portion.
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July 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am
I agree with all of these points. I currently use 15/8/53 which is kind of my survival-spec-gone-deepwounds spec that I have been trying out. It does unfortunately lack focused rage, but I feel Imp Shieldwall is way better for Cooldown Cycling in Ulduar as a warrior tank. That and I still have 5/5 Shield Spec for the survival-maxing part and I’m kinda going to have to get used to using 5/5 more often I think for the Rage on Avoidance in 3.2.So far I havnt had many complaints with it. The only fight that Threat becomes an issue in is Hodir, and I usually go UA for that.
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tPaste reply on July 17, 2009 12:12 pm:
Really? I never tried UA on Hodir because everything I’ve heard is that it’s a bad fight for it (particularly given he does things like flash freeze where he spends extended times not hitting you).
You don’t have threat issues on Vezax? At least Hodir is tauntable…
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Zipetor reply on July 17, 2009 1:49 pm:
How do you manage a 15/8/53 build? Seems like 5 points more than possible.
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darkblayde reply on July 21, 2009 10:46 am:
Sorry, i mixed numbers, its 15/3/53. And UA works wonders on Hodir for me, especially Hardmode. Vezax is definently a threat challenge but I can’t afford to grab too many threat talents as I have to be able to cooldown cycle the enrages (The kite method just increases threat problems so we just do it in place). DPS should not just download omen for pretty bars, it’s partly their responsibility to hold back when they just unleahsed a crit streak of 20k spells. Can’t speak for hard mode vezax yet. I can see holding back as counter productive : /
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July 17th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
I really like Gag Order for pulling Casters using Heroic Throw.
Whats your view on Shield Specialization? I would think that 5/5 would be best for rage and block but I see lots of specs with only 2/5. At what point do you take points out of Shield Specialization?
If this talent is no good would Improved Bloodrage be an option in combination with Glyph of Bloodrage for a free rage button?
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July 17th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Warbringer talent makes prot spec fun! Game changer.
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Drae reply on July 18, 2009 9:17 am:
QFT I can’t play “non prot” cause I break my keyboard trying to charge in combat…
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Cleaved reply on July 18, 2009 11:14 am:
I am frustrated as hell when I try to Tank on my Pally, after tanking on my Warrior. Mobility FTW.
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July 18th, 2009 at 3:58 am
Another great post Vene. Such a clear summary is gold.
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July 19th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Can you elaborate on #6, maybe with some simple math? Perhaps I’m missing something, but it seems to me that Cruelty is a more natural match for a 15/5/51 since Deep Wounds are contingent on critical strikes.
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Clint reply on July 20, 2009 6:48 am:
Deep wounds spec makes the difference closer, but EJ people showed that the AP from AttT is still better. Sorry, but my math isn’t good enough to prove it.
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darkblayde reply on July 21, 2009 10:49 am:
Especially with the AttT buff comming in 3.2.
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July 20th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I’m trying to figure out where I’m gonna drop three points from for 5/5 shield spec now.
hmmm.
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July 21st, 2009 at 2:19 am
Biggest thing I learned when speccing is: “Don’t spec while drunk.”
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July 22nd, 2009 at 1:46 pm
I’ve been levelling a prot warrior, so I’ve been looking at guides, and blogs, etc. and decided to look at some of the prot warriors I know, to see what specs they use. So i looked at my Guild Master/Raid Leader/Main Tank, and did not like what I saw. He has 11/5/55.
In arms he has imp. h. strike, and iron will (in addition to the parry), and in fury all 5 points are in cruelty. He has imp. bloodrage and puncture, and skips gag order. He has glyph of sunder armor, not sure if thats bad, but I thought there were better ones. (He also has revenge and taunt glyphs, and i’ve wiped in random groups from missed taunts on raid bosses, so thats good i think).
We’ve progressed up to Mimiron, and we generally don’t have problems, so I don’t know if I should say anything, or how i would go about it. Any help?
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July 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 am
I tried survival spec for tank and hated it, switched to the deep wounds spec, never looked back. It checks all the boxes for me and I have noticed no suffering of my tankability with my 3/5 or 2/5 shield spec.
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tPaste reply on July 23, 2009 7:00 am:
You do a lot of hard modes?
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October 13th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Wondering with the 3.2.2 changes to devastate if puncture comes out of the dog house?
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