Do you know who’s Alive? You should.
As a Raid Leader, you learn pretty quickly that you absolutely have to have some form of raid frames especially in 25 mans. Without being able to see who’s alive and who’s dead, you’re trusting your memory completely as to what the state of the raid is and given that encounters are designed to overwhelm you the last thing you need is one more thing to remember.
But, this isn’t a Raid Leader site.
No, you’re right it’s not. However, knowing if the people keeping you alive are alive, knowing how quickly one can expect a boss to die or knowing immediately if another tank is dead are all very relevant to you as a tank. Yes, this information can be communicated over Ventrilo or Teamspeak, but sometimes that’s just too slow. Half a second is probably going to matter if the only healer assigned to you just died. Every second that passes before you realize the boss needs to be taunted, the more DPSers the boss feasts on.
Let’s say I buy this…
…then how do I do this? Well I’m glad you asked 
1. The Standard Blizzard Raid frames
Just pull them out and put them in an empty portion of the screen preferably on the side somewhere.
2. Grid
Basically just a cleaner, more customizable option.
Warning: Ignorance is Bliss
If you’re the type of person that’s quick to give up or call the wipe, this isn’t the best tip for you. When you do this, you’re going to know when your team is near defeat. Sometimes, it’s going to make you want to quit. Sometimes, it’s going to annoy you when you see the same person die again that died the last 3 wipes.
If you’re getting extremely distracted and messing up your assignments by knowing what’s going on then forget raid frames. For those of you that have always used raid frames, consider not using them and see how it affects your game play. Information is important, but focus is equally important. The secret is in finding the right balance.
September 8th, 2009 at 2:55 am
Ever since I got healbot for my alt priest I’ve been using it to monitor raid status (including healer mana in pugs to see if those healers are truely oom or just whining) and to hotswap vigilance on high threat targets
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Grido reply on September 8, 2009 9:55 am:
Same here. I also like to see incoming heals to know if I need to blow some cool downs when I’m getting. I also use heal bot for a one click intervene.
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Grido reply on September 8, 2009 11:24 am:
Heal bot also shows who has aggro with a red box.
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Vivilros reply on September 8, 2009 1:16 pm:
Always forget I can do that, I got it set up, but don’t use it nearly often enough…
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September 8th, 2009 at 3:24 am
This is more from a raid leader perspective than a tank, but here goes.
I strongly recommend grid. Make sure you can easily see when people are out of range and when they are dead. Also add any encounter specific buffs.
After a while you will learn to follow the fight progression just by looking at the ebb and flow of damage on grid, and any debuffs that go up.
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September 8th, 2009 at 4:37 am
Personally, I use the raid frames that come in X-perl, I haven’t experimented at all with Grid, but I know several of the healers in my guild tend to prefer it.
I will say that I like several of the features that are built into X-perl, especially the little frame that tells you how many other people in the raid are on your target.
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September 8th, 2009 at 4:49 am
I currently have xperl set up to show the entire raid but i’ve heard grid is more customizable and usable for healing and dispelling. Can anyone with xperl and grid experience verify this?
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Drae reply on September 8, 2009 12:39 pm:
I used CTRaid for like 2 years
Xperl for ~1 year,
Then Pitbull for ~8 months.
I’ve also used Sraid frames and AG Unit frames.
Then I switched to Grid about ~6 months ago; it’s by far my prefered.
Grid is much is more compact then all the above, however it’s display is not as detailed. This helps me quickly scan the raid frames and assimilate the information efficiently.
As a Tank that’s all I really need. I set-up Grid to show encounter specific debuffs in the center of the health bar; other debuffs show up in a corner of the box as a red dot, the location of the dot tells me the school of debuff. My grid fades out when OOR like most others, but all four Corners light-up when someone has aggro.
Grid takes up much less room then almost most other raid frames, and it’s very easy to determine the overall raid situation with just a quick glance; even when scaled way down in size.
Grid is very customizable; and in the end I find it the best raid frame available.
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Moony reply on September 11, 2009 8:14 pm:
Personally I use a combination of both, I use grid for my raid frames instead of the xperl ones, more compact/ customizable and its just really nice, but I still keep xperl for everything else. xD
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September 8th, 2009 at 5:02 am
I use pitbull. It allows me to be aware not only of health, but of who is being targeted, like the prevous comment, do a vigilance hotswap, and for me to be able to intervene.
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Cleaved reply on September 8, 2009 6:00 am:
I also use Pitbull. It is not as compact as Grid by default, but you can play with the settings to make it whatever you want. I like being able to change it to show whatever info is important to me as a Tank, and omit buffs/debuffs that I don’t need to see.
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marklar reply on September 8, 2009 11:04 am:
another pitbull fan here. i’m still on v3, so it’s very, very customizable. nevermind the hours i spent setting it up; it was worth it.
one of the best things is the agro indication - i have all bars set to green (no class coloring), and then set to red whoever has agro.
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Roffe reply on September 8, 2009 2:50 pm:
Im currently using 4.0 its alot more cuztomizable than 3.0 if you get the hang of it, and its also easier to cuztomize (quicker)
I’ve always been using raidframes since first i started this game (almost :p) started off with x-perl but didnt at all like the “high-tech” look, went to Grid, and then finally pitbull.
Pitbull is like grid, but you can choose and edit EVERYTHING. thats why i love it
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September 8th, 2009 at 5:30 am
I’ve been using other raid frames since our UBRS days, but I’ve been toying with the idea of switching to Grid for a long time. I really just need to find the time and try it. I’ve heard too many good recommendations for it to discount it much longer.
However, I know it’s a beast to configure well.
If anybody has seen a good configuration guide for it (focused on tanks or at least non-healers), linking it in this blog discussion would be a big help. I doubt I’m the only one in this situation.
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Clint reply on September 8, 2009 7:03 am:
Honestly as a tank, there isn’t a whole lot of configuring necessary. Generally, we don’t need to see who has diseases on them, who has incoming heals, or who needs to be dispelled.
I use grid solely for threat (intervene target), mana bars, and death. For me that is all the extra information that I really need.
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Orcstar reply on September 9, 2009 4:13 am:
Grid, pitbull, they’re all raidframes, but I find the extra information to be vital. Especially if you not only tank but also lead a bit.
Knowing who has what debuffs in a raid encounter can be life saving.
For instance: on the beasts encounter I tanked acidmaw and because of the raidframes I could easily see who had the burning bile debuff, intervene that person and charge back.
Also seeing who has aggro is very very nice.
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September 8th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Grid have nice red dot in corner which will tell you who have aggro. Also you should be able to see when you raid got damage so you can use some defensive cooldown to give buffer to healers to top raid.
Also I’m using Obituary, (premonition’s version), I have to know why and when people died. Also that gives me fine info who died, so I can call out CR fast.
I have list of dead/live people in XRS but that require mouseover, however it gives nice e.g. 7/25 dead without mouse over.
To be able to tank, mitigate, hold threat, lead raid, point directions, speak on vent, you need all info available around you.
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September 8th, 2009 at 7:32 am
As a RL and tank leader (I prefer that term to MT), I find that Grid is one of my most useful add-ons. I like to chain pull as fast as possible, and with a glance I can see who’s alive/dead and if any of the healers need a break to drink.
Grid is also a breeze to set up for a tank. For me, I installed it. That was it. I’m sure I could do some set up or config to make it give me even more useful information, but it worked just fine out of the box.
Give it a whirl.
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September 8th, 2009 at 9:09 am
My current main (and my previous main, come to think of it) is a healer, so I learned to rely on Grid as a compact, information-dense replacement for the standard UI’s raid frames. Now that I’m leveling a warrior with the intent to tank, Grid is staying on my screen. I also use X-Perl, and will be further customizing that to get the tank frame working right.
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September 8th, 2009 at 10:14 am
As much as I love Grid and I’ve been using it came out on every single character that enters any group of more than 5 people once in a while, I have to say…
I hate it for healing.
No really, on my Druid when Resto I just can’t configure it so that I achieve these things at the same time easily:
a) see who’s at what health
b) see who’s in range
c) see who is dead. I see how many at a glance, but not who
d) distinguish between people of the same class
d) isn’t so bad in a guild group, as I know the name class binding by heart so that “Fuz” really means Fuzzyfurry and not Fuzzlebum or whatever
c) is really, really bad. I always fail at a timely battle rez because I don’t see if someone needs it.
a) and b) mostly work. Unless I configure stuff in the direction of c) and d).
Think I really need to try VuhDo or HealBot for healing duty.
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Christer Nyberg reply on September 8, 2009 10:38 am:
For c) I’d put name as Center Text 1, and death status as Center Text 2.
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Drae reply on September 8, 2009 12:43 pm:
Actually a druid in my guild recently commented on how bad grid was for Druid healing. Mainly because he found monitoring the remaining time on hots was impossible.
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ix reply on September 10, 2009 12:07 am:
Druids have lifebloomer. Makes it faceroll easy I’ve heard.
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JnP reply on September 9, 2009 12:32 am:
hmm I can understand you problem BUT its only because you have not set it up right, you will need as a healer I think some extra plugins for grid, I am using like 3 on my paladin to get the overview that I want, its GridIndicatorCornerIcon, GridManaBars, gridStatusRaiddebuffs, I am not 100% sure the last one is the right one of them there is 2 plugins with kinda like name the one is from TBC and dont work in WoTLK
and then if you go play with the settings now, grid can do more than healbot, it can show all the hots you have on players, it can show all raid debuffs, and you are totally in control of what raid debuffs you want to see, there is even like 5 plugins made for grid only for druids healers,
and the problem with the name is easy to fix, there is a place in grid where you can show the how many letters grid shows at the same place is there a checkbox named some like 2nd center text, and in that second text you can tell grid to show you death warning, health(ofc when they are alive), and incoming heals when someone is healing them…
the most importen thing that have happent in grid is that it works together with healbot now, it did not in TBC and I was like the only healer in the guild using grid
but go to curse.com if grid is missing any thing you feel you need and look for plugins for it there is everything you can think about and I think it can SO MUCH more than anything else if you get the right plugins for it and anyother addon can giv you
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September 8th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Great post
I sit beside our raid leader (hes my fiancee) so I get to see first hand exactly what has to be done. Its impressive how quick he can make big decisions on the fly, and its even more impressive when our raiders can successfully change up a strategy completely, also on the fly.
You definetely have to be able to think on your feet.
The WoW default frames are okay, but I am a HUGE fan of the xperl frames. I can easily see debuffs and get a decent idea of whats going on even before I need to look around me and see where people are. And its just so customizable o_o
This may not be a raid leader’s site, but I’m willing to bet my wow account that the majority of people who come here are raiders, and they’re going to pass it onto the people in their guild that need it.
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Drae reply on September 8, 2009 12:51 pm:
I’m a firm believer that all tanks have a bit of raid leader in them. It’s apart of the role we play.
As tanks we are much more involved in the encounter, and the results of our actions have for greater repercussions then other roles.
A tank is like a fulcrum, the entire raid balances upon his/her efforts. Everything the tank does has an effect on the encounter. Positioning, threat production, gearing, and now cooldown management effects the entire raid. If a dps blows a cooldown early it’s not gonna wipe the raid; if a healer is out of range, it’s not gonna kill them for lack of heals. With responsibility comes leadership; tanks are responsible for making many decisions on the fly that effect the entire encounter.
Being properly informed as to the raids situation just makes for better tanking.
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Cleaved reply on September 8, 2009 1:23 pm:
Someone in my guild argued with me that DPS was just as important (if not more so) as Tanks and Heals. His reasoning was that most bosses/encounters have an Enrage timer. lol
I agree with Drae, Tanks (and Heals) form the basic structure of the group. DPS knowing what to do is important for some fights, and they even have specific roles for some fights. However, a Healer and a Tank have a specific role to fill for 99.9% of all fights. I don’t mean to say that DPS are less important, but the focus of a Raid should be to have good healers and tanks first, as it makes a sound foundation upon which to build a great group. You have to have DPS to win an encounter, but if you have a bad or under-geared set of Tanks and Heals, then all the DPS in the world isn’t going to matter.
This is why some guilds go with Tank and Healer loot priority. I honestly think on progression fights, having your Healers and Tanks gear up first, actually helps more. If you can squeeze out a little more time to survive, you may actually live long enough (as a raid) to DPS down a Boss. I think this has become less important with the pushover content we have now, but still helps a little bit when content is new and sans nerf. (note: My guild doesn’t do loot-priority for Tanks/Heals)
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Armagon reply on September 8, 2009 4:03 pm:
There’s a reason why - at least on my server - the tank in 5mans automatically gets promoted, marks and explains tactics as well. There are exceptions, but 90% it’s like that.
Orcstar reply on September 9, 2009 4:20 am:
Tank/healer priority might be arguable up to the point that you meet the requirements to succesfully kep your tank/raid alive during an encounter.
This point is reached relatively fast so after that you should switch to dps priority instead because once you reach that threshold, increase in dps will increase the chance of succes by more then by giving your tanks and healers gear first.
Cleaved reply on September 9, 2009 9:27 am:
Near the end of my post, I said it was less of an issue these days. If anything it only matters on Tier pieces… and that has been made less important as well. Most gear we get now that is BiS is not a Tier piece and we never use the 4 piece and sometimes not even the 2 piece bonus given by Tier gear. Tank priority isn’t a big deal anymore, but I would say for Cloth healers, maybe some priority should be given. Some of their gear is going to be snapped up by Locks, Mages and SPs. IMO, the Priest healers should be given first shot at cloth pieces not clearly itemized for DPS. In any case… that is a perfect world, and I honestly have no issues with waiting on Tank gear. Most of the time it is quite evenly spread amongst the 2-3 Tanks in a group.
My post above was more or less to show how some people put less value on Tanks and Healers, when they should be the highest value members of a given group. They need to be solid and know what they are doing, and be prepared for everything that can happen. Whether it is an ability from a lowly trash pack or a boss, they need to see it coming and be ready for it.
Most raid-leaders I have known were either Tanks or Healers. I often think they would have an easier time doing their jobs if a DPS would raid-lead and keep tabs on what is going on. However, given the amount of responsibility heaped on Tanks and Heals as it is, it isn’t hard to believe that they would also shoulder that leadership burden. Not always because they have to, but because they are used to having responsibility and are better at taking it on than others.
Leading is a by-product of what they already do, and the knowledge they already have about encounters/trash/bosses anyhow.
September 8th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Good point especially about having the information, or maybe not having it deliberately.
The Blizzard raid frames work since they fixed them to err… work (remember their positions) but the main issue is they don’t tell you range. I also use grid on all my characters. It’s very uncluttered and informative.
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Zellviren reply on September 9, 2009 12:46 am:
The default raid frames can be set up to grey in or out depending on whether someone is in range or not; very helpful.
Personally, I use Grid because I despise the complexity of X-Perl and the obscene amount of time it takes to set up PitBull - but I often don’t pay that much attention to Grid, either.
The Blizzard raid frames and Ventrilo are all you need to keep your mind on the job at hand and to get all the information you need. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention something their AddOn does that the default Blizzard frames don’t do. Health, mana, debuffs (I don’t really care about buffs other than my own) and range are all I need to know.
The only exception to that is, of course, threat levels. However, if you’re not using Omen or some other specifically designed threat meter for that, then there is something terribly wrong.
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Bhig reply on September 9, 2009 6:50 pm:
I’m always having an internal argument about threat levels. Especially now that Blizz has included relative threat indications to their standard UI.
I can never understand why DPS don’t play their part and watch their threat. There have been plenty of times recently that I’ve been unable to generate threat (clearing debuffs, snagging extra adds, even straight after a mob threat dump) and the DPS are still determined to go hard until that magical number above the mobs nameplate says 100% then disappears, shortly followed by their HP. Then some of them make comments like “gosh I must be a threat whore” or “man WTF I SO out threated the tank!”.
Has threat management become solely the tank’s job?
Good topic for a post?
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ix reply on September 9, 2009 11:57 pm:
I dual specced to fury a while back so I guess I can answer this. The thing is, when you’re playing a dps class, you’ve got rotations to worry about just as much as the tank has. There’s a lot of proc based stuff you need to be on top of. Playing as a fury warrior myself, one thing I constantly have to watch is 1) my rage (to know when I can dump some with hc strike) and 2) instant slam procs (they last like 3 seconds and I should reinstall that addon I had for them which made a sound). It’s the same problems healers have (they’re watching everyone’s health bars instead of the fight). It’s definitely not easy to keep an eye on the fight _and_ threat as well. Even with all my tanking experience I’ve more than once managed to out-threat the tank. This is especially funny when the DPS who you chided for out-threating you last week is now tanking, but I digress.
Or look at it this way. You as the tank are watching the threat because that’s your job. The DPSers are just trying to do DPS, cause that’s their job. If they’re really good, they’ll notice when they get aggro, but don’t count on it. Most people aren’t that good.
On a slightly related note, I wish blizzard would tone down some of the effects that spells and abilities make. Especially since they added death knights I’ve found it increasingly hard to see what’s going on in a fight. I’m having a hard time seeing what mobs are facing me, let alone which ones are attacking me (I usually cycle, as a tank).
Cleaved reply on September 10, 2009 9:19 am:
A Tank shouldn’t have threat issues, unless the fight dictates that they have threat issues.
If you are moving a lot, it is harder for you to maintain higher threat than the ranged DPS that are mashing buttons from one spot. If a Boss goes through considerable periods of just NOT hitting you (casting on others, changing phases, etc), then you may have Rage issues which can lead directly to losing threat.
If you have an over-abundance of Rage, are not moving and spam Heroic Strike to deplete your Rage properly, you will not have threat issues.
The main time I lose threat is the very beginning of a fight on a long pull of some kind. Some Ranged DPS like to lay into a mob/boss before you even land a hit on it, because it is in their range and out of yours. Ignis was a bad time in this way. Not only do you move a lot during the fight, but if you pull back to the middle of the room near the pools, it can get hectic. All it takes is one Ranged DPS to blow him up while he’s being misdirected to you, and you end up with a fire area on top of the ranged/melee.
Threat IS the responsibility of everyone. If it were solely up to tanks, we wouldn’t have threat-wiping abilities on most classes that are prone to grabbing high amounts of threat, as well as talents to lower threat.
ix reply on September 10, 2009 11:55 pm:
@cleaved
Obviously a tank doesn’t normally have threat issues, but it does happen that the wires get crossed somewhere, i.e. most times I die is from trash mobs. Which is normal, considering what percentage of my dps comes from whirlwind. There’s also the issue of DPS outgearing the tank, which I’ve run into occasionally (both as tank and DPS). “a tank shouldn’t have threat issues” is completely meaningless cause you’re failing to take into account all the variables. And you even agree that you sometimes lose threat at the very begining of a fight. This is not always because the DPS start too early. Burst dps can be very high when you attack something and all your abilities proc at once.
Nobody was saying that threat isn’t the responsibility of the raid, it’s just that it’s harder to keep an eye on as DPS and thus when it’s not integral on the fight (trash) or you’re working with a very low buffer (like, outgearing the tank and always at 95% of his threat level) oopsies do happen.
And just FYI, there’s not a single class role that specs for low threat since WotLK.
Belak reply on September 11, 2009 4:44 am:
@ix
“And just FYI, there’s not a single class role that specs for low threat since WotLK.”
While I will agree that nobody specs specifically for reduced threat only, that’s because they’re rolled into other talents they already want and almost always take anyway.
Fury’s “Improved Berserker Stance” - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=29763
and
Retribution’s “Fanaticism” - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31881
are two pretty clear examples.
Sephirawth reply on September 11, 2009 10:40 am:
I am of the mindset that it is my job as the tank to worry about the threat and not the dps. Their job is to kill and kill as hard as they can. We have a strong tanking core so I don’t MT every boss but the bosses I do MT my dps knows that the second I hit the mob they can go all out and not worry.
The only time I ever tell them to watch it is on bosses that either A) have a threat reset or B) Dps is getting an insane buff because of the encounter design. Again this is my opinion and you know what they say about opinions
Some of my other tanks even disagree with me so this is in fact a good topic.
wds reply on September 12, 2009 3:54 am:
@belak
It’s a mixed bag I guess, healers get useless stuff like Healing Grace which I would never spec out of pvp (so why does it have threat reduction again? maybe just an oversight)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=29191
Actually, come to think about it, I think healers are the only class that have talents just for threat, tho I might be wrong. I know priests have one, that also nobody specs.
@sephirawt I think most boss fights threat is probably not an issue. I was tanking malygos last night and I can’t say that I had any threat problems with him at any point. But when it comes time to pick up the adds in phase 2, I find I have to ask some of the dps to be a bit careful. Multiple adds are usually harder to keep under control, especially in fights with lots of moving around. But then I’m not the world’s greatest tank, I just do alright when I pay attention.
Bhig reply on September 13, 2009 3:32 pm:
@Sephirawth
Your first sentence is a little confusing, but I’m pretty sure I know what yo mean and I pretty much agree. I work on the premise that my job is to keep everyone alive, which by default means they’re not to get wailed on, and this means holding threat. No issues there. On a straight up fight everything is sweet. My gripe comes from the ituations you mentioned (and some others mentioned).
A) Threat drop/reset
B) Fight mechanics buffing DPS
C) Ranged pulls (or kiting into position, ToC anub P1 med sized bugs)
(and one I discovered last night)
D) Mobs that start with high target threat (ToC anub P2, little crawlers).
Usually things like the above are what cause issues. But the DPS don’t seem to compensate for these, choosing instead to keep laying the heat on.
I am dual spec’ced fury and I find that I do watch my threat and make sure that I’m not about to overrun the tank when they’re busy dealing with something else.
I think everyone needs to remember play their part, after all dead DPS do exactly zero DPS.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Grid FTW. I used Xperl when I started raiding but it always bugged me at how much room on my UI it took up. Grid is awsome for displaying alot of info in a very small space. As was said earlier, there really isn’t a heap of into we need to know as tanks, who is dead or alive, healer mana, and that is about it. Grid does that extremely well.
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September 9th, 2009 at 8:29 am
Does Grid allow you to see player mana? Every screenshot or video I see with Grid only has player HP shown - which is why I’ve shunned away from it. Mana is just as important as HP for at least 1/2 of your raid.
A dead Mage does 0 DPS, but so does one with 20k HP and 0 mana.
For me personally, it’s nice to know if my healers are all ready OOM by the time we hit Anub phase 3.
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marklar reply on September 9, 2009 12:40 pm:
not sure about grid, but pitbull can.
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Bhig reply on September 9, 2009 6:43 pm:
This is the only shame of the standard grid package. No Mana bar…
And it’s for this reason that I can’t bring myself to turn off the stand blizz raid grames.
HP, health, major debuffs. If it was easily compactable it’d almost be an unchallenged winner for raiding.
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Cataren reply on September 10, 2009 9:27 am:
Its just a plugin called Grid manabars. Not set up required just have to enable it in the grid options.
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September 9th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
I use X-Perl Raid frames stripped down, look me up on youtube and see
tsuyoiyama
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September 9th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
GridManaBars, works perfectly. adds a mana bar to the standard grid raid frames.
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September 10th, 2009 at 6:25 am
vene, this is unrelated to post question. many tanks geared in T9 stopped paying attention to hit rating. i saw a lot of then on armory, and it struck me that their HR is at 150 or so. how important the 9% HR at thisvstage of the game, and is it worth to gem for it?
Thank you, Urkagan.
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Veneretio reply on September 10, 2009 10:17 am:
I won’t go into much detail, but basically, if the fight doesn’t require taunting, I don’t value hit rating very highly. I use whatever my gear naturally has. It only provides threat. If you don’t need threat for a fight then you’re better off with stamina or avoidance.
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September 10th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
X raid status works pretty well for this as well. Let’s you make a customizable box with stats in it (like raid’s overall mana, raid’s overall death count, etc).
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September 19th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
I started out my WoW career as a priest and played her for a good two and a half years. For a while, I was the main healer for my guild and handed down healing assignments in raids, vetted the other healers, etc. As a result, I learned to keep all my raid windows pulled out all the time.
When I switched to dpsing on my Mage, I kept them pulled out.
Now as a tank, there they are, and the habit has served me well
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October 8th, 2009 at 6:38 am
My main is a healer, but I also raid pretty frequently on my warrior tank. I have Grid and Clique set up for healing with my main. I added some Clique rules on my warrior so that I can Intervene or apply Vigilance to any raid member with a simple click of grid. It works out really well.
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