I need more in a Trinket than Stamina
With the launching of Brewest, we’re blessed with a couple new Stamina trinkets, Bitter Balebrew Charm and Bubbling Brightbrew Charm.
Unfortunately…
It’s not all about Stamina.
Wait… WHAT!?
Yes, you’re still reading TankingTips.com. The reality is though we aren’t playing the Stamina game. We don’t gear to appease pugs. We gear to live. My Heart of Iron isn’t going anywhere. 8 Stamina is not worth losing the ability to gain 432 Dodge rating for 20 seconds on command.
The Real Question
What do these new trinkets beat for the Stamina stacker at heart?
Certainly Heart of Iron and Royal Seal of King Llane beat them. The mighty crab trumps them as well. Clearly, they beat old blue. Which leaves the tricky part…
Brewfest vs The Black Heart
You lose a lot of Stamina (44) for an amazing proc. An amazing proc that’ll be up about 10 seconds every minute. It goes against everything I stand for in the way of consistency, but I’m choosing The Black Heart. It’s proc won’t always be up, but when it is, it’s the best kind of proc since it’s guaranteed that it’ll have an impact. It’s up-time is going to be even better on fights like the Northern Beasts, Thorim or anything else where you find yourself taunting back and forth with a fellow tank. For those fights, it’s simply better so you should have it available.
For fights that don’t fall into that category though like Anub’arak, Patchwerk or anything else where you’re stuck tanking the same mob the whole time, it’s a toss up. Certainly, the heavier the magic component to the fight, the more you should lean towards Team Brewfest.
When appeasing pugs matters…
These trinkets aren’t a must-have if you’ve been fortunate enough to get your hands on some of the higher item level Stamina trinkets from raids, but for those that aren’t raiding yet or aren’t lucky, I’d definitely recommend picking up at least one of these. For those having to put up with the pug scene where Health trumps all, don’t be ashamed to throw on both long enough to snag an invite to Vault of Archavon.
After all, you lose 100% of the races you don’t run. 
September 21st, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Wow, Vene. I have to say, I disagree. Every tank that doesn’t have trinkets from TotC should pick up two of these, as there’s really no reason not to. Sure, I’d use Heart of Iron over those trinkets 99% of the time, but for that upcoming magic-only fight in Icecrown, I’ll be glad to switch in 8 extra stamina. At the end of the day, the only thing you’re giving up is bagspace.
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jericho reply on September 22, 2009 2:17 pm:
“Upcoming magic-only fight”?…
While there is no reason not to put these in your inventory, there is also no reason to be looking for that 8 extra stam. I have an extremely hard time believing that there will ever be a magic only fight in Icecrown or ever again. The reality of tank balance and Blizzard’s commitment to at least keep up appearances when it comes to DK vs the rest of us would prohibit it. The avoidance numbers for both the Heart and Llane vastly outweighs a few stamina in most situations.
I do agree with Vene over the Black Heart in most situations as well.
Honestly, I have to question Blizzard’s intent with these two trinkets. A pair of trinkets that can push any new tank to such stamina levels after giving us the heart only a few months ago. I would not be surprised if these were “fixed” at some point. Until then, grab a pair of them and you are gold if you are a new tank.
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Veneretio reply on September 22, 2009 3:39 pm:
They did the same thing last expansion. It’s simply another means of both making the celebration enticing to participate in as well as giving new tanks another way to catch up to the main pack quickly. Don’t be surprised if the exact same trinkets exist again in Cataclysm.
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September 21st, 2009 at 11:55 pm
i’m glad to hear i’m not the only one.
i felt almost guilty not equipping them, but i totally agree that a lot of people are going to forget about how useful “use” effects can be in fights.
i’ll keep ‘em for my max stam, max MEH set.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 12:03 am
“It’s up-time is going to be even better on fights like the Northern Beasts, Thorim or anything else where you find yourself taunting back and forth with a fellow tank. For those fights, it’s simply better so you should have it available.”
Armor is definitely nice to have but on that fight highest possible EH is quite definitely much better. If the armor was on-use and you could use it right before impale then it might be better but looking at logs it was usually up ~3x over the time impaler got killed, surprisingly often it procced right before other tank had to taunt. Especially for paladins higher HP = higher AD range. Also on Icehowl high HP pool helps a lot as you can’t rely on a proc for the times you are stunned and can’t avoid damage.
Heart of Iron is definitely better as it has a great on-use effect.
TL:DR
I’d take constant higher EH over random high peaks any time of the day if fight has frequent and (very) high burst damage.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 am
I couldn’t believe people were equipping the Balebrew Charm, honestly. All she does is give you booze. Who cares?
I like that the new dodge trinket and the Valor Medal don’t share cooldowns, and I will definetely be using them. But as far as stacking stam goes, I’d rather keep my Essence of Gossamer and Black Heart. It’ll be a long while before we get to Yogg anyway.
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Stormscythe reply on September 22, 2009 12:32 am:
Essence of Gossamer? Really? 59 stam seems like a hefty price to pay for the Gossamer’s somewhat underwhelming proc…
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Veneretio reply on September 22, 2009 2:09 am:
Agreed, I can’t understand the reasoning behind using Essence of Gossamer over either of the Brewfest trinkets.
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Haarg reply on September 22, 2009 9:10 am:
Agreed, the proc on goss is pretty close to worthless.
Bhig reply on September 22, 2009 5:21 pm:
The Goss Proc is useful for solo-ing Chillmaw… although with 170 stam the new trink with the healing chick might be better…
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 am
Bubbling Brightbrew Charm.
/target Brewmaiden
/wave
/targetlasttarget
Summon brewmaiden before Vezax pull, and use this macro at start to save your healers mana a bit… not sure how big impact it did but we were using it before the pull yesterday on 10m hm.
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Regis reply on September 22, 2009 1:28 am:
You get a stout of beer by waving at the summoned NPC, the buff will be up all the time. Not that beer is wrong, but I feel the foggy screen and strange perspectives interfere with my tanking.
Don’t drink and tank
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Orla reply on September 23, 2009 8:04 am:
This has been a message from the council on impaired and dangerous tanking, reminding you that a tank drinking not only affects you, but your whole raid party.
Over the limit, under the boss.
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ch1d3th reply on September 24, 2009 6:11 pm:
If I could upmod you, I would.
ix reply on September 25, 2009 10:15 am:
Bah I don’t have a problem. And those wipes last time were totally the healers’ fault!
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 am
I got both the stamina trinkets on the first run with my warrior (don’t hate me). Since she has only been 80 for a couple of weeks it was a no-brainer to use both, but I have been wondering the same as you whether to replace one with the Black Heart.
Trust me, I have run normal ToC *at least* 30 times by now (I got absolutely everything else I need from there, tank and dps), and I have yet to see it actually drop, nevertheless win it. So I’m torn to whether I should bother run that piece of crap one more time for a trinket that is comparable (but slightly better, for the reasons you wrote) to one I already have.
Being a new tank on the block (without a raiding guild) I feel I have to prove myself worthy of a tank spot at every turn when invited to heroics and raids, and sadly most people seem to judge a tank by his health pool first and skill second. So for the time being I will continue using both Brewfest trinkets. If the Heart drops it drops, but it’s nice to know I don’t *have* to get it.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 2:01 am
As a strict 10-man raider the available stamina trinkets aren’t quite as good as the once from 25-man raids the Brewfest trinkets will mostly be sitting in my bags. But i will get both of them anyways just so that they are there when a massive non-physical burst attack shows up again.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 am
My situation is that I have the Black Heart paired with Royal Seal. I love the proc on Black Heart. The use on Royal Seal is also a ton of avoidance and threat (currently it’s macro’d to Last Stand),
Pretty sure I don’t want to give up the Royal Seal; which leaves me wondering whether the extra stam on the Brewfest trinkets beat out the proc on Black Heart, which I’ve REALLY come to appreciate against heroic Gormok >.
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Veneretio reply on September 22, 2009 10:20 am:
I would recommend moving away from the Royal Seal + Last Stand macro. Both cooldowns are powerful enough that they warrant being used on their own.
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Shadamehr reply on September 22, 2009 10:56 am:
Yeah Vene, I kinda know this…but it’s hard-wired into my brain to hit Last Stand if/when I drop to about 20% health, and anything that gives my healers an extra second or two to react I figure is useful.
What I’m saying is it’s an instinctive reaction to hit Last Stand at such moments. But yeah, I know what you’re saying and I agree with it. Guess I’ll unbind it tonight.
Damn I just *knew* you were gonna pick me up on this :p
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September 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 am
the brewfest trinkets are in my bags; and i fully agree - they are better than essence of gossamer; but the heart trinkets and their procs are actually better overall tank trinkets for a serious and real tank. i’m not a stam stacker tank, and my healers appreciate it a lot in most fights. the proc of armor is far more appealing for a long fight situation; perhaps not so much w/ magic fights, but the added armor w/ points to arm-t-teeth also adds some occasional moments of approx. 65 more AP. Overall the benefits of the Black Heart are more appealing to me than these novelty welfare trinkets.
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damnpatch reply on September 22, 2009 9:43 am:
Not to derail here, but you can’t honestly call the Brewfest trinkets welfare and not call the Black Heart welfare in the same sentence.
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zoohey reply on September 22, 2009 6:54 pm:
oh the black heart is total welfare loot
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September 22nd, 2009 at 4:03 am
I think the overall theme is that the Brewfest trinkets are better than the Essence of Gossamer but not, necessarily, better than other trinkets of the same type/iLevel and your choice should depend on the fight.
Not for the first time, I would suggest Vene is generally correct. Additionally, I’d also say that the difference in stamina between the Black Heart and the Brewfest options isn’t significant enough to really create a painful choice.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 4:43 am
first time poster, long time reader.
anyways, surprised by no mention of the vigor buff on Bubbling Brightbrew Charm. Wowhead comments say it restores something like 139 hp per 2 secs. is this in combat? cause if so, that seems huge to me. anyone know how the buff works?
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September 22nd, 2009 at 5:20 am
I think the point with the Black Heart is that it’s a mitigation proc only. You can’t guarantee that it will be there when you need it. It reduces the amount of damage you take over the course of a fight, but when your healer is hit by a snobold (for example) and the level of healing you take falls below the incoming damage level for a few seconds you can’t be sure that you will have the proc up. This is why, in my view, the Black Heart proc is much less valuable than an on-use effect, except in the situation where your healers are struggling to keep up with raid damage anyway and you have little or no tank overhealing.
As for the Brewfest trinket in particular - the extra stamina is “always on”, which makes it a useful trinket for those fights where the risk of death is a a single or short succession of big hits.
Another factor of course is that it’s a little soul destroying to have to replace a highly cherished, interesting trinket that you beat a difficult boss to obtain with some novelty piece of crap that pretty much everyone will have.
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Shadamehr reply on September 22, 2009 5:32 am:
Well the Black Heart isn’t exactly from a difficult instance, but yes I take your point.
I agree with your other point. Where the extra stam trinkets would shine are fights like Heigan (lul), Malygos, drake tanking in Obsidian Sanctum, or Mimiron (esp. “Firefighter”); anything potentially involving heavy magical damage or where additional, constant magical (non-physical) damage is a factor, in addition to the boss’ melee.
I’m sure there’ll be some of those types of encounters in Icecrown, so I’ll farm for both Brewfest trinkets with that in mind. I passed the “Bubbling” variant to the pally healer for her offset last night, but I’ll be needing on both from now on.
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Everblue reply on September 22, 2009 6:54 am:
The RNG boss you have to beat to snag the Black Heart is the most OP boss in the game.
Nerf it!
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Zellviren reply on September 22, 2009 7:41 am:
There is no RNG involved in the boss, it will always be the Black Knight; or am I misunderstanding your point?
Additionally, the trinket isn’t mitigation only (from your previous post); due to the Armored to the Teeth talent, you also get 65 AP from the proc.
Everblue reply on September 22, 2009 8:49 am:
Zell
I was joking - my point was that the Black Heart never ever drops. I am convinced that it is all some conspiracy to keep me running ToC5 over and over until my eyes bleed. I can beat the Black Knight, but not the RNG.
Zellviren reply on September 23, 2009 4:14 am:
Heh.
To be fair, I’ve seen and heard a lot of complaints about this particular drop. I suspect it’s more to do with the unusually large loot tables on all the bosses in there, as opposed to a conspiracy against your good self.
But you never know. :O
damnpatch reply on September 22, 2009 9:51 am:
One quick note and a question - I agree with Shad on the drake tanking, however I feel it is worth noting that Essence of Gossamer does well for the whelps in there. It’s nearly guaranteed to proc, there’s a huge number of very small incoming attacks (especially with two sets of whelps) which get almost completely absorbed. It’s like that trinket was made for that role in that fight.
And can anyone confirm that on use or proc’d armor effect actually increase your AP? There is no change on my character sheet when Black Heart procs or I use Furnace Stone, for example
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Bhig reply on September 22, 2009 5:28 pm:
Last time I saw.. The AP from armour is calculated periodically. So sometimes the extra armour will be counted, and sometimes not. On average it should help.
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:41 am
Well, if I could get my gauntlets on a Heart of Iron, that would be great, but I managed to get both Beermaiden trinkets last night and we’ve been killing Ignis for months and I’ve yet to actually be there when one drops. Seems like a no-brainer.
I’ll be keeping the Black Heart around for the proc for sure. It’s pretty great on certain bosses. But I can’t sneeze at the extra stamina most of the time, particularly when we’re still learning Heroic Northrend Beasts. I hate getting killed by Gormok not durring impale.
Plus, the on use effect is fun. ^_~
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September 22nd, 2009 at 6:05 am
I’m curious why you feel the Monarch Crab beats either Brewfest trinket — even with epic gems (i.e. 2x Solid Majestic Zircon), Monarch is +123 stam and the on-use, v. +170 stamina.
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Veneretio reply on September 22, 2009 10:25 am:
Monarch Crab has a powerful use effect on only a 1 minute cooldown. The short cooldown time coupled with a decent amount of Stamina makes it superior.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 7:47 am
I was just thinking to myself, “I hope Vene talks about this today.” You see, I was using Furnace Stone & Essence of Gossamer, so I didn’t hesitate to drop the Gossamer for my “mug trinket”.
My question for myself was, do I want to try to farm the Black Heart. The answer I’ve come up with, even after seeing your post is…not really. If I have some guildies wanting to run regular ToC for some reason, I’ll go with them. If it drops, I’ll roll on it. I’m not, however, going to go out of my way with the little playtime I have to farm for it.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 am
My question is it worth using over my alchystone? Currently on my boss tanking set I use the ToC black heart and the alckystone…
75 stam and 50 dodge.
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Shadamehr reply on September 22, 2009 9:40 am:
That depends on your gear and the encounter you’re facing. However all things being equal, in progression fights I would go for Stamina.
Heroic Gormok being the example I’m thinking of. Dodging 3 of his attacks only to get splattered to the floor on the fourth because it when it hit you didn’t have the health to take it … Stamina is always the safer bet when in doubt.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 8:23 am
I’m with Athelia on this one. Still weighing where the Alchemist tanking trinket weighs in.
The static 50 Dodge on top of 75 Stamina is nice, but more then 175 Stamina I can’t decide….
Excellent post Vene. TY.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 8:54 am
I currently have a normal Juggernaut’s Vitality, but have not seen a single Heart of Iron or Royal Seal drop since day one of Ulduar. I do of course have a Black Heart. For me it wasn’t that big of a choice, I instantly went with the extra stamina. Who really relies on a random proc that’s only up 1/6th of the time?
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Shadamehr reply on September 22, 2009 11:10 am:
Well the beauty of Black Heart’s proc is you don’t have to rely on it, it’s just “there” as gravy. The randomness of the proc is against it for sure. But it’s not insignificant physical damage mitigation.
What it has over the extra stamina trinkets is that the proc also affords some threat from ATT AP. Whether that’s worth it to you very much depends on the boss you’re facing and the content you’re doing.
In short: get what you can and switch as needed. Heck I still use Lavanthor’s on trash when a lot of my peers long ditched theirs.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 am
First off clearly you should be using both brewfest trinkets for VoA because most of koralon’s damage is fire damage anyway.
.
2nd if I’m reading this right you really value the crab over the brewfest trinket? With DR e your getting a 3-4% on use dodge for the sacrifice of roughly 400 health. Or to put it another way with 38k health and 26.05% dodge you are sacrificing 1.1% of your health for 3.26% dodge for 10 seconds of at most every minute, averaged to .543% dodge.
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Veneretio reply on September 22, 2009 1:30 pm:
If try to determine the value of usage effects based upon their average value, you’ll always be disappointed. The fact is, it’s a powerful 1 minute cooldown that I absolutely think trumps the health difference since many of the nastiest boss effects are on about a 1 minute cooldown.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 11:33 am
My bad i wasn’t counting undimished dodge, should be closer to 4.9% dodge on use. Still subpar to the brewfest trinkets in my mind tho.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
I know this was not the topic of the post but I just wanted to ask, we went into HTOC 10 man last night and me and the other tank were getting instagibbed by Gormok for most of the evening. What was odd was that looking in our combat log we were getting hit for no more than 24k-26k maximum which is easily healable however we would go from full to dead instantly with no impales on us. We actually overgear the encounter already due to the fact that we are farming 25 TOC reg and have been real lucky with drops.
My Stats -
Health - 40,106 HP unbuffed - 50,245 raid buffed
Armor - 26,336 unbuffed
Dodge - 27% unbuffed
Parry - 21% unbuffed
Def - 556 - 6.86% to dodge or be missed
The DK stats are about the same. I guess my question is has anyone else had this type of issue. It almost seemed liek it was bugged because with 3 stacks of impale and the boss beating on us we were getting healed fine however every once in a while it was BOOM - Dead tank. We could only figure this was being caused by Parry hasted attacks when the melee would accidentally get in front of the boss. I am just wondering if any of you guys are having the same issue. I have been looking for posts but have not seen anything.
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Shadamehr reply on September 22, 2009 12:20 pm:
Yes we sometimes have this issue and it’s down to parry haste, taking 30, 14, then 20k hits in less than a second and a half it can be nothing else. It’s just RNG, you have to live with it., since gearing to hard-cap expertise isn’t feasible against him. Sounds like you had particularly bad luck though.
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Bhig reply on September 22, 2009 5:35 pm:
Ole fatty gormok does seem to have one attack that appears to hit 3 times in a row… Basically it’s death if you’ve got impale stack, or if you’ve just taken the transition (and the healers are still drop their last heals on previous tank).
I’ve seen my combat log read three hits, with three overkills, all hits did around 12k (post armour) to me and then one death.
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Furiat/Vege reply on September 23, 2009 2:29 am:
Didn’t they remove parry haste on all versions of Gormok? We’ve never had such problems after that hotfix (39k hp ub, 27,6k armor, ~48% avoidance, similary geared dk as a second tank). It’s probably bad luck with snobolds, at least I don’t see any other reason (maybe someone turning parry haste on Gormok again?).
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Veneretio reply on September 23, 2009 2:46 am:
Yes, the parry haste is definitely gone.
Veneretio reply on September 22, 2009 1:32 pm:
In 10 man, I had a similar experience. The healers told me that the biggest issue is the Snobolds both their ability to render the healer they occupy nearly useless as well as the frequency in which they throw fires.
How many ranged dps are in your 10 man?
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Sephirawth reply on September 22, 2009 1:54 pm:
We had 3 healers - Holy Pally, Tree, Disc
2 Melee - Enhammy and Fury Warr
3 ranged - Lock, Hunter, Boomkin
What was so weird was that it was never when a snobold was on a healer. It seemed to be after a tank transition and before an impale would land on us. I literally did not have any reaction time to hit last stand SW or juggernauts I was just dead. Same thing on the DK. I looked in combat log and it says Gormoks melee hit for 22k 2803 overkill or something to that effect. Is there a way to get a time stamp on the attacks? and are the parry hasted attacks showing up? It was really frusterating because while this is a hardmode the deaths we were experiencing were impossible to heal though even with hots and shields on us unless we are missing something wich we must be.
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Veneretio reply on September 22, 2009 3:37 pm:
You’re absolutely right that you can’t react.
One thing I learned pretty quickly in the 25 man version is that you have to anticipate the late impales and preemptively use your cooldowns for them. This is likely where you’re making a mistake. If you don’t have the newest version of BigWigs or DeadlyBossMods, I suggest you get it as it’ll tell you when an Impale is about to land.
Sephirawth reply on September 23, 2009 7:16 am:
Interesting that there is no parry hasting on him. I guess I will go to popping cd’s every transition and see how that works. Thanks for the help, we are going back in there tonight on heroic so we shall see what happens.
Sephirawth reply on October 1, 2009 8:36 am:
Just wated to update, great advice on the late impales, that was def what was killing us. Did it in 3 attempts last night..went much much smoother. I am kind of scared of faction champs on heroic though……
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
I have been insta killed by Gormok when he does a normal hit, followed .1 seconds later by an impale hit (not tick). It seems like every so often, you get unlucky and basically take 2 shots at the same time.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pm
I disagree with you this time Vene. As much as I would like it to be otherwise. Stam is just far superior to other stats in the vast majority of cases where you are tanking a boss that could kill you. Sure the proc on the BlackHeart is good but may or may not be there for when you really need it and as others have said, the on use avoidance from wrath trinkets is minimal at best, certainly no comparison to the Pocket Watch.
The fact that these 2 trinkets are so easy to obtain should not cloud peoples judgement on just how good they are.
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September 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Hi Guys,
I currently wear Furnance Stone from Ulduar10 and The Black Heart. I totally aggree, that The Black Heart is slightly better than the Brewfest-Trinkets, but what about Furnance Stone?
I know, that there are some fights, were massive Ammounts of Stamina are most welcome (e.g. when tanking Sathaarion 3D), but otherwise Furnance Stone is better than the Brewfest-Trinkets … right? =)
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Veneretio reply on September 23, 2009 2:51 am:
I consider Furnace Stone to be one of the weaker choices you could make. Currently, I’d favour Essence of Gossamer over it in the majority of situations.
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Everblue reply on September 23, 2009 6:48 am:
Golly - I am about to disagree with the mighty Veneretio…!
I like the Furnace Stone over the Black Heart because, although the proc is weaker, it’s still pretty damn good and it’s there when you need it. The dodge is pretty huge too.
I also wonder if you are entirely happy with your logic here. You think stamina on the EoG (I ignore the pointless proc) is better than a ton of dodge and a very good on-demand mitigation effect on the FS, whereas you don’t think the stamina on the Brewfest trinket (I ignore the pointless proc) is better than the very good random proc mitigation effect on the Black Heart. I grant you that the quantum of the stamina difference varies, but there is a hint of inconsistency in your approach.
I think the right answer with trinkets is that they are good for specific fights. Black Heart and Furnace Stone are good for fights with lots of physical damage. Brewfest and EoG are good for high magical damage fights where you might die in a couple of hits.
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Furiat/Vege reply on September 23, 2009 10:11 am:
For fights with magical damage Black Heart is probably as high as EoG (the only boss that uses only magic dmg isn’t a real boss tbh: Gothik, and his adds use physical damage on the other side) . It’s proc is good for fights with fast, low dmg attacks (only whelps on Satharion come to my mind, Freya’s small adds reset aggro here and there and are only small part of the encounter, so I’d value EoG’s usefulness here less)
Furiat/Vege reply on September 23, 2009 10:12 am:
Second and later sentences are about an EoG btw -.-
September 23rd, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Just thought I’d add in some trinkets that haven’t entered the discussion yet. I was sat using the def trinket from naxx + EoG up until recently (yes, thats how unlucky I’ve been with the drops for Black Heart and Furnace Stone), until I finally got myself something new - Fervor of the Frostborn from TotC 10. Of course 2 days later brewfest comes and I get both stam trinkets in one run, and then a couple days later Onyxia comes and I get given the head, so I picked up the very unusual Purified Onyxia Blood Talisman.
After a lot of thought (and losing bragging right with my guildie for most health) I decided to avoid both stam trinkets and go for the 2 new ones. Whilst I’ll keep the stam trinkets for any magical heavy fights coming up in IC, I think the proc and avoidance from FotF and the pure avoidance (from the parry rating and defence rating) of POBT make them superior. It also helps that wearing these trinkets makes me feel like less of a charity case
What’s your opinion on these new trinkets and how they face up to all the other options?
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Everblue reply on September 24, 2009 1:07 am:
I have FotF as well. I’m not sure it’s as good as the Furnace Stone sadly. Sure the buff stacks higher, but it takes a while to stack up and when you take avoidance into account it’s much worse. Maybe ok for an adds fight, like Anub’arak, but that’s it.
So if you think Furnace Stone is bad, then FotF is worse. If you think Furnace Stone is good, you have to decide how FotF fits in to your other trinket options.
The Naxx trinket is really really good, by the way.
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Shadamehr reply on September 24, 2009 11:04 am:
Repelling Charge seems to have been in my bags forever, but the Onyxia quest trinket http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49487 is also very nice because the def on it means I don’t feel guilty about equipping something with parry rating; I always passed on Rune of Repulsion. I’d equip both in an avoidance set which is typically what I use in Ulduar/ToC normal “farm nights”.
Typically though, there is no subsitiute for Stamina in progression tanking (currently HToC). I may well give avoidance a try on Heroic Gormok tonight though, even if it’s just a couple of attempts.
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Kallix reply on September 24, 2009 4:28 pm:
Yeah I’ve always loved my naxx trinket, the avoidance you get from it is great and it gives you a lot of mobility when it comes to some tanking items without defense, but I kept getting told to get rid of it because I should be able to get plenty of defense from my gear, and its a wasted trinket slot. Thats why I love the Onyxia quest trinket atm, as its basically combining 2 nice trinkets into 1, and a trinket without a use effect is nice because I often get lost trying to work out when to use them during fights.
As for furnace stone being better than FotF… hmm, maybe, even with slightly less dodge, but after about 20 ignis kills and no drop I’ve decided I don’t want it anymore, because I’m fed up of being disappointed. As for FotF or furnace stone against the stam trinkets, I know I’ll be swapping to the stam when its progression fights.
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