Loading ...Becoming a Tank in your Guild
My last post addressed getting into raid tanking for those of you stuck in the 5 man scene and really was geared more towards those of us that aren’t in an established guild. But, what about those of us that are in established guilds? How do we get a chance to tank? Perhaps, the most importance advice on that subject was brought up by Tinaria in a response to that last post.
You don’t impress people by being awesome, but by being reliable.
Which begs the question…
What makes a tank, reliable?
- Be awesome
- Be a Warrior
- Be needed
- Be on-time, always
- Be able to say No
On being awesome…
Now, it’s true you don’t impress anyone by being awesome, but that doesn’t change that you have to be a certain level of awesome. How awesome you need to be in order to tank for your guild is going to depend a lot on how awesome the current tanks in your guild are. You won’t be expected to be as good as them, but you will be expected to be close. Your guildmates are used to a certain standard of tank and the closer you are to that level, the better.
Which means don’t start bugging your guildmates to let you tank a raid if you’re still struggling with landing Shockwave on a group of mobs or you’re still accidentally using your Shield Wall because it uses the same key as your Lightning Bolt on your Elemental Shaman. You won’t be expected to know every little nuance of the strats, but you will be expected to be able to execute the fundamentals of your class.
On being a Warrior…
Now this one’s a bit of a joke, but it’s a Warrior site so this is what you’ll get. The point here is that you should be the class your guild considers reliable. I find my guild is a lot more comfortable with a Warrior because they’ve used Warrior tanks for many years. If your guild really loves Druids, your best bet is to be tanking on a Druid.
On being needed…
If your guild’s tanks are already griping that there aren’t enough tank spots then you’re probably going to be out of luck too. That said, where you’ll get your edge over them is by being more awesome and by being the class that your guild wants. This point goes hand in hand with the above in that if your guild is currently running 2 Death Knights in a 10 man run and really doesn’t like that then there could be a need for a Warrior.
The crucial part becomes identifying needs. Listen to your guildmates. If you know that the Offtank in one raid doesn’t like it then there’s a need there. If you know that the Raid Leader hates having 2 Death Knights then there’s a need there. If you know that there’s a dozen guildmates that desparately want to do Icecrown, but there’s no one to tank/lead/organize it… then there’s a need there. Identify a need and fill that need.
On being on-time…
Ask anyone and they’ll tell you that tanks are the one role in a raid that if you don’t have them, you have to wait on them. If you’re the type that’s consistently late then raid tanking just isn’t for you. A guild will always take the tank that’s on-time and can make every raid over the tank that’s more awesome and the class they want.
On being able to say No…
- If you aren’t awesome yet, say No
- If you aren’t the class they want, say No
- If you aren’t needed, say No
- If you won’t be on-time, say No
I’ve heard more stories than I can count of tanks that have lucked their way into runs for a while then all of a sudden found themselves without a tank spot anymore. It’s because they couldn’t say No. They committed to a position they weren’t ready for yet. Or one where they weren’t the class the group wanted. Or one where they were just an extra tank in a raid because they were popular in the guild.
Or most of all…
They committed to a position they knew they just couldn’t commit to. They knew they were going to be late. They knew they would have to leave early. They knew they couldn’t be there every raid. They didn’t say No and now they don’t have a group.
Lost Opportunities
The perfect tank position is rare, perhaps, it doesn’t even exist, but the real secret to tanking in your guild is being ready and able to fully commit to a position. Being reliable in every sense of the word is crucial to cementing yourself as THE tank for a raid. A lot of times, you’re better off saying No so that you’re able to say Yes when something better shows up. A lot of times, you’re better saying No otherwise you may not even get asked.
Be reliable by being an Awesome, on-time Warrior that your guild desperately needs for their run.
Best of Luck 
April 13th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Love the site even if you’re a foul-cuss of a Hordie,
So here’s an argument I would like to get your opinion on. I mostly pug raids and often find that there’s a 50/50 chance of the people in the pug either being cool and not expecting me to know the fights 100% or their the trash talking type and very unforgiving.
Now I’ve been tanking for a little while and feel that I do pretty well, there’s always room for improvement but I read up on what I don’t know and I figure it out. That being said if I meet all the requirements of your list, (with special emphasis on awesomeness and being a Warrior) then I would think that I’m a sure thing for a pug raid…not always the case when they want me to know the fights or post the achievements.
That being said…do you feel that a tank should know the fights before heading into the fight?
I might know the first four fights in ICC because I’ve ran them a few times but it was also because a pug needed an OT and I wanted to learn the fights. So there’s those who would say watch the video’s and KNOW THE FIGHTS…verses some of us who actually like to do the fights and learn the fights.
imo it’s kind of more fun to experience the fights without knowing what to expect, however that really seems to piss off 99.9% of the general population of WoW players.
Love the blog,
….SilveR
ps. FOR THE ALLIANCE!
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Veneretio reply on April 14, 2010 2:10 am:
I think you’ll find that pugs have zero tolerance for wiping. Most will be patient enough to tell you how to do a fight if you ask. Very, very few pugs will react well if after you’ve wiped, you say… I didn’t know the fight.
No matter what role you play in a raid, there is absolutely an expectation to know the fight or be willing to listen to someone else describe to you how to do the fight.
You’ll find that the same thing is the case in a guild as well. You just can’t expect 9 or 24 other people to wipe on content they’ve already completed so that you can have your mystery experience.
There are exceptions to every rule though…
There are some guilds that when they first face content, they like to go in blind. I did this very thing with my ICC10 group for the trash so things like the traps were quite exciting and entertaining. However, with that same run, I still gave explanations of the bosses.
In the end, a lot of this game is time management and the secret to really enjoying it is finding people that value time the same way as you. If you want a unique experience, you may have to put more effort into looking, but I assure you every guild system you can imagine exists out there. The obvious alternative approach is to start your own guild and seek out people like yourself.
Whatever you decide, best of luck. (even though you’re a whiny alliance)
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Starbuck reply on April 14, 2010 8:12 am:
I’ve been in your situation many times, never got to run with guilds really because I play too late to fit their schedule. So I play the pug game.
I don’t think a tank need to know every encounter, I mean it is not possible if you haven’t done the encounter before. But it is often expected by the pug community.
What I do is be very frank about it – tell everyone before that I dont know it. With the tank shortage today chance is they’ll pick you up anyway if your gs is good enough.
Two ways to get around this (and I use both); either run the encounter as dps first – it is just soooo much easier. Or (which I prefer) hope for a MT that know the encounter and talk to him. I’ve learned more from other tanks than from any other source (when it comes to raid encounters). Of course it’s good to watch guides and read up, but at least me I need to run the encounter live to get to know it.
*$
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April 13th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
As tank, you are the one person who can’t affort to be late!
If a DPS or Healer is missing, you can still do some trash while waiting or looking for a replacement… If you are the tank (especially on 10-mans) there just isn’t that option…
Regardless of class however.. if you are late.. you will be replaced.. be it this run or the next!
~Baruti.
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April 14th, 2010 at 12:27 am
Why so much attention to detail? If one is truely so rad, then why is so much time required to get things done? Most of my raid experience has been waiting on other people to get their acts together. I understand that the function of a guild is to help reduce this experience, and help develop flow and training through repatition. One should just be able to log on, PUG up some people with achieves desiring some similar objective, crank on the HM and enjoy the encounter/loots. I have experienced both up to this point in he game and have found myslef enjoying the latter situation described. I’m not 277′ed out, but do have a few pieces at far less cost of my life. Overall I feel guilding is an extention of the “carry”, appropriate to most but not all guilds.
I heard they are adding guild achieves soon, which will force people into this role you describe… and then I will have to get rid of my two man personal guild bank and play the punctual schedualed job like approach to raiding making my experience in ICC that much more enjoyable.
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Veneretio reply on April 14, 2010 2:17 am:
I think sometimes people have far too rigid of an idea of what a guild should be. There are plenty of guilds out there that are just filled with good people that throw together runs whenever with a mix of pugs and guildies alike. The beauty of finding the right guild for you is that it increases your chances of getting to run with people whose company you enjoy. Not to mention, it increases your success rate in instances too.
Guilds aren’t for everyone. That said, I don’t believe you can ever be the best tank you can be until you’ve become part of a guild. Tanking is as much about connecting with the group as it is about executing your individual abilities.
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Aekas reply on April 15, 2010 1:31 pm:
anecdote,
last night guildies and I, where trying an ICC10 with alts, average GS like 4.8k. we were just missing a healer. so, we pug him… find a shamy….when we were just about to start…shamy DCed.
we just start laughing, because we realized someone with 5.8k gs wont raid with us.
my point here, is we (guild mates) are so confident between us that we know how far we can go with our alts, but someone else who dont know us wont even try to.
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Cartz reply on April 23, 2010 7:48 am:
In his defense, with that big of a gear disparity, he was probably hoping for a few heroic modes or possibly a LK kill. With your average 4.8k GS you might run into some problems on the dps checks, unless you’re all exceptional players.
At 5.8k there is very little he would need from ICC10, especially the first wing… Can’t blame him for not wanting to ‘carry’ you.
It is a douchebag move to just DC though. He could at least have said ’sorry guys, I don’t want to bring my main on your alt run’
April 14th, 2010 at 2:27 am
Odd thing about the time portion…
My current guild, before I joined them back during Burning Crusade, raided right as I got off work. I made this very clear to the raid leader that I would probably be late, and I felt awful shorting the raid like that. However I guess the raid lead really wanted me, as he not only saved a spot for me most of the time, but I ended up taking over a majority of the main tank responsibilities as I exceeded the other tanks by bounds at the time.
To this day I still get off of work as raids start, and no one really cares, and I still get in. I must be the oddball of the bunch.
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April 14th, 2010 at 6:09 am
From an ex Prot Warrior now Holy Priests view I would say reliability counts for more than anything followed by gear.
Gear sadly will always limit your opportunities in ways it does not restrict dps or healers. Needs no explaining really as we all know the score and how people attach so much importance to a tanks gear.
Super skills aren’t worth so much. Forget awesome, I’d be happy with “average” tanks that turn up all the time as opposed to the usual excuses like having to leave early, college work, family members rushed into hospital (oh please, at least find something original) plus the old favourite of “I’m quitting WoW” every couple of weeks. Then you have the 3fps 1000 latency brigade who can’t stay online for more than 30 seconds…
In raiding, tanks are not the rare beasts they are in five man content. There are twice as many wannabe tanks as there are places for 25 man – hence why I gave up and rolled a healer.
But now from this perspective I see that despite the glut of prospective tanks, most are under-geared and most of them are unreliable and tend to raid well for a couple of weeks and then start doing everything I mentioned above. So it seems like a waste of time taking a tank with poor gear as he will just clean up all the loot for a few weeks and then stop playing. So for me to invest time in you I want to see some evidence that it won’t be for nothing.
I therefore believe if you want to get into tanking raids you probably want to get established as dps whilst maintaining your tank set from 5 man farming. Make it known that you have a tank spec. Tank the weekly raid quest for some guildies. Be the guy who is always there and can respec to tank when someone else doesn’t turn up. This makes you very popular. Be the guy who therefore gets first choice on the spare tank gear from early bosses that the main spec tanks already have. Talk on vent with helpful, constructive analysis and input that shows you know the score. If you do that and stay reliable you will soon get a permanent tank spot. In all the guilds I have been in with so many awesome but unreliable tanks I reckon someone with average skills but very reliable could be our number one main tank within a few weeks!
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April 14th, 2010 at 6:38 am
I think one thing you left out is “Be Flexible”. If you want to tank, and your guild already has an established stable of tanks, practice your DPS spec and make sure you have at least passable gear for it. If you know that you are ready to take on raid tanking, then getting to be the swing tank is a good way to show your stuff while still being able to help the raid on 1/2 tank fights. Most guilds aren’t going to want to change tanks without good reason, but they are probably willing to give you a shot and find out what they have to work with. Everyone has real life issues come up from time to time, and most guilds will want to be able to adjust easily if that affects one of their tanks.
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April 14th, 2010 at 6:57 am
It can be hard to swap mains in a guild going from a dps or healer to a tank… a lot of times you are better off joining a guild that has that need already.
The other thing I would mention though too… is build a solid offset. You will be more valuable to the guild if you can fill whatever need is available at the time. If its a 10 man guild this may not be as big of a deal… but I know in 25 mans it is huge.
We have 3-4 tanks in ICC 25 and it is nice to be able to use the tank that is best suited for the fight and have the other(s) go dps. As a result our guild has more of a tanking corps than a Main tank off tank type position because it varies from fight to fight.
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April 14th, 2010 at 8:24 am
Can’t be said enough. For raid tanking, you gotta go where the need is.
Hanging out on the wings of a competent tanking corp is great for learning your chops (btw I highly recommend this method of tank apprenticeship from a tank corp if you can find it) but chances are a permanent main tank slot won’t be opening up anytime soon. Don’t be afraid to go to a newer guild looking to fill a main tank slot.
In BC I was looking to tank but I was already in a guild with a few buddies but had well established tanks. Inevitably I had to move on. I ended up changing servers and joining a guild a friend was in and was looking for another tank to run team 2 through Kara (way back in the day lol). I stuck with it, worked hard, and had a load of fun. Eventually becoming the guild MT, an officer, and fostering a few noobie tanks that went on to be solid tanks in their own right.
None of which would have been possible had I not taken the plunge and jumped into a spot where a tank was needed. Go where the need is…and tank it!
I’ve always gone by the adage: “Be Prepared!”. Whether its gear set homework, gear farming, buff gathering, and knowing the tanking role for upcoming fights. Knowing and learning strats is absolutely vital if you are looking to take a tanking lead role of some kind. If your raid leader is not a tank its likely they will rely on their main tank to know how best to handle their tanking role for any given fight. If the competition is tight and you want to differentiate yourself from other tanks, nothing catches the raid/guild leader’s attention like being knowledgeable about all the fights you will be raiding that night on top of being on-time and fully prepared!
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April 14th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
I would also recommend you tank all the stuff the main tanks do not want to tank. People running ToC to gear up alts? Most ICC tanks don’t have the time and energy to tank every guild raid in lower content. That’s your window of opportunity. Tank anything and everything so that guild members will see you are reliable and know your stuff. That puts you in the right position to move into a slot when/if one opens up.
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April 14th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
All you need is an “in” or an opportunity. If you get a chance to tank and show how well you can do, then you’ll rapidly climb the ranks. I’ve joined multiple guilds once I started tanking, and each time became the “go-to” Tank or “MT” if you wanna call it that. I never have to set it as the goal, because it’ll happen once I get a chance to show what I can do.
Basically, the cream of the crop will rise to the top. If you are good, people will realize it and put you in the lineup. All you have to do then, is show up and keep good attendance. Attendance is 90% of being a great tank, and why? Well, Vene touched on it above… they’ll take a Tank that isn’t as good as you are if they show up 100% of the time. Doesn’t matter how good you are if you don’t show up, because an absent Tank doesn’t do a good job at all.
Join a guild, get in on some runs, establish yourself. Gear won’t matter unless you are way behind the curve, but even then… you should be able to illustrate that you know what you are doing from a mechanics standpoint. People will realize how good you are, talk about it, and then you’ll suddenly be the go-to guy when people are looking for a raid tank. You’ll know you’ve achieved the top spot when people don’t ask “Who is going to MT this boss?” anymore, they just assume its you.
Just don’t get burned out too quick. I’ve taken a hiatus from WoW due to raiding entirely too much
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April 14th, 2010 at 10:45 pm
I’d like to echo the “be needed” point. I’ve changed guilds twice in the last two months and this was probably the biggest factor in my second move. My current guild, unlike the previous one, had an actual need for a new tank. Interestingly, the previous guild stuck with an established tank even though several members said they preferred it when I tanked. In other words, be aware that “need” can trump “awesome”.
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April 14th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
Amen.
A very nice read indeed, on a heavily underestimated subject.
I’ve had to work hard to be reliable, the metagame part is invaluable for that. Seriously, if you disagree go read those parts again.
At some point, you can get to where people start predicting your moves because they feel how you tank. Slightly more offtopic - I’ve now tanked with one of our druids for so long (or often) that we naturally, without talking divide mobs on a pull, move the same way and so on.
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April 15th, 2010 at 7:50 am
I would add to Vene’s comment “Tanking is as much about connecting with the group as it is about executing your individual abilities”. I have been Warrior MT for awhile for a guild and finding competent heals and dps is fairly easy for 10 and 25 raids. I still find that even with equally geared competent groups this statement still matters. I know of individuals if added to the group as dps and heals that still have more to do with the raid success than equally geared and skilled players. I lack a real reason for this maybe simply for me “I feel more comfortable with these people” I think it take some pressure off and allows me to focus better on what I’m doing as a tank? Not certain but I know we willl one shot bosses with a certain raid group but replace 2 or 3 and start a new run with one or 2 wipes for the same bosses, and I know these people are good players and are geared for the encounter. So as a tank if your lucky you can find a guild that is stable enough for you to get these other members who you are comfortable with. It makes a difference for me.
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April 15th, 2010 at 8:36 am
What makes a tank, reliable?
-Be a warrior xDD
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April 15th, 2010 at 11:04 am
These rules work pretty well for all the roles, really.
I actually get to tank and heal and DPS because the guild knows I can do any job when they need me to do it. I’m not afraid to say no, though.
Show up on time, be prepared, know your class(es)/role(s). All good rules to follow.
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April 15th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Great post. As a guild leader, I want to reiterate the most important point: ATTENDANCE. If you are available every time, you will get the invite. Unless you happen to be a blooming idiot, but the very fact that you are smart enough to read this site suggests otherwise.
Another really great suggestion was tanking anything you can for guildies. One of my current main tanks started as a cat, but he was always in gchat offering to tank this or that, and was the first to volunteer to fill a tank spot if one was available. Even though it took about two months for the opportunity for him to tank in ICC on a regular basis, he was my first option to fill the role.
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April 16th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Vene, first post here, but I’ve been reading your stuff for quite a while. As always, great work.
A couple things to underline what others have said: tank everything available, and that includes picking up the daily heroics for guildies. It saves them a long wait in que, for which they’ll be thankful, gives you a chance to get to know some of your guildmates better, and it is a constant reminder that you’re a tank who is in the guild that isn’t above the dirty work. Occasionally you’ll even have a chance to impress someone. If your guild has a handful of alts or new members who are still gearing up for raid content, it’s more than just getting the daily emblems, too. Even running heroics with the same people helps to build the comfortable familiarity between teammates that can make the raid experience better (and, hopefully, more successful).
As for knowing fights, going as dps the first time is a good way to get a feel for something, though tanking an encounter will always have elements you can’t pick up without doing it. If it’s an encounter I haven’t done before, or only done once or twice, I’ll let it be known, ask questions, and make sure I’m clear with the other tank(s) what’s expected. If you’re going to tank something for the first time, ten or fifteen minutes (if not a lot more) of reading up on it can make the difference between a wipefest and a fast learn. A little preparation and communication goes a long way.
I’ve also swapped guilds twice in the last couple months. In the first case, there just was no need. With a strong rank of established tanks ahead of me, my chance of getting into even an OT spot was very small. I moved to a smaller guild that said they were going to start raiding, and I was eager to get into the earlier raids that it’s about impossible to find pugs for (about the only time I see Naxx being pugged is when it’s the weekly, never for more than the one boss, and never for a 25). Turned out that the guild wasn’t serious about wanting to raid, and I found myself trying to pug everything again because nothing was going on. Now I’m in a regularly raiding guild with a fellow warrior tank with whom I used to run regularly. They’re setting up a fresh 10 man ICC team, so I’m looking forward to that magic again.
Keep up the great work.
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April 19th, 2010 at 1:23 am
Cheers, Vene - appreciated this one and found myself nodding along several times.
There is one point I’d really like to make, though, if you’re looking at taking up a tanking position in a guild with established tanks. Small precursor, though:
Remember that your guild tanks are a “team”. They’ve learned to do things together over a period of time and a raft of content, a period that can’t be replicated immediately. Not only does that teach them to play well together but, if you’re in a decent guild, the tanks will likely be in the top percentage of performers. This means one point is very important if you want that spot.
Are you as good as, or better than, the current tanks?
If you’re not, don’t ask for the spot - you’re going to fall flat on your face.
After completing Ulduar and at the launch of the Coliseum, our guild OT departed and left us with a hole. The most obvious choice was a long-term guildie who joined as a “tank” (his previous guild happened to need one) who had coveted the spot for a long time. He was reliable, always turned up on time and couldn’t wait to get started.
Then, over a period of around two months, he had his confidence systematically ripped up piece by piece.
As he was the same class (paladin) and was similarly geared, it was assumed his performance would be right up there with that of his predecessor. It wasn’t. Not only was he a little less skilled generally, he had never really tanked with our top raid group and simply did some things that caused a headache because they were far removed from what had happened before.
Alas, people were slow to forgive these “errors”; sadly, his opportunity came and went with his reputation as a tank in tatters.
Fast forward, and another paladin stepped up to grab the spot. He’d spent a long time in the queue - the best part of four months, actually. But he’d spent time running heroics with some of the guild’s top players, coming along to raids as Retribution, joining us on Ventrilo for some of the raids and just being patient in the hope he’d get a crack.
Now?
Utterly irreplaceable. He took no time learning what was expected of him, knew the set up well enough to do things the way we liked them and, most importantly, checked what was wanted with me before every pull he was marginally unsure of.
I can’t stress it enough - the question above must be answered.
Are you better than, or at least as good as, the current tanks in your guild?
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April 26th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
I just came back to tankingtips after a hiatus in which I was raiding exclusively on my resto shaman, and spending the rest of my time leveling and (attempting) to gear a ret/prot pally. I’ve recently moved my warrior tank to the Horde to guild up with some RL friends, hoping I could tank in the second ICC10 team. That hasn’t worked out, so I’ve taken the step of offering to tank lower content (Ulduar, ToC, even Naxx) for those who maybe haven’t been through it all yet, even though I dramatically outgear Naxx and Ulduar.
So yeah: see a need, and meet it. Hopefully, I can start to develop the kind of trust that opens doors.
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May 5th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
I’ve been out of it for a while, but as a former main tank for a casual guild and an OT for a h/c guild, punctuality is HUGE. The most annoying thing our guilds went thru was spamming lfg tank in trade chat. One of the reasons I was a regular was that I was always logged on ready to go with eqt, pots, injectors,etc. You can upgrade gear, but you can’t upgrade dedication.
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